10.02 @ 135
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 297
From: Orange Park FL
If you feel like you are getting locked out of a gear at high rpm and you believe the trans/clutch is mechanically sound then I would:
1) Do the Ranger method of flushing out the fluid
2) Make sure you have enough throw in your pedal which will likely push more fluid and increase the air gap inside the clutch.
A shorter pedal throw can be beneficial for drag racing as long as it doesn't impede the shifting.
Keep in mind that the clutch gets hot after the burnout. Also, clutch and/or fluid can and will get hot on the launch and shifts. As it gets hotter the fluid can exceed boiling point and not be as effective as well as the clutch material expands and can decrease the air gap. Both reactions can cause difficulty in shifting.
So it's beneficial to keep the fluid as cool and clean as possible, make sure your injecting enough of it, and do everything possible not to overheat the clutch in the burnout and on the launch. Giving a little extra air gap can make all the difference.
1) Do the Ranger method of flushing out the fluid
2) Make sure you have enough throw in your pedal which will likely push more fluid and increase the air gap inside the clutch.
A shorter pedal throw can be beneficial for drag racing as long as it doesn't impede the shifting.
Keep in mind that the clutch gets hot after the burnout. Also, clutch and/or fluid can and will get hot on the launch and shifts. As it gets hotter the fluid can exceed boiling point and not be as effective as well as the clutch material expands and can decrease the air gap. Both reactions can cause difficulty in shifting.
So it's beneficial to keep the fluid as cool and clean as possible, make sure your injecting enough of it, and do everything possible not to overheat the clutch in the burnout and on the launch. Giving a little extra air gap can make all the difference.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,059
Likes: 366
From: Kendall Park NJ
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,392
Likes: 2,911
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Thanks guys.
I had to re-learn a few things I want to share.
You have to stay off the limiter. Even if you can't hear it or detect it, if you invoke the limiter you will lose time and mph. So if you have access to logging software check closely and see and make sure you are not triggering it.
In my car it's actually better to slightly short shift than nick the limiter.
On my best pass I short shifted the 1-2 slightly (150 rpms) and the 2-3 (100 rpms) and the car responded favorably.
I also feel that each gear should not be shifted at the exact same rpm for the absolute maximum performance.
So make sure you play with shift points and see what works and write it down because it can make a significant difference.
Manual guys: If you have an adjustable master cylinder then utilize it. Make sure you are getting enough fluid to get clean shifts and pay attention to air gap in the clutch. Some guys getting locked out of gear at high rpm may need to open up that air gap to allow clutch to disengage and/or engage. Try and keep the clutch as cool as possible at all times and that also means not overdoing the burnout.
This stuff is fine tuning after you car is close to being dialed in but it makes a difference.
And when you make an adjustment and it works, you gain confidence in your ability and that in turn leads to better performance. It's as much a mental game as any sport especially for the manual guys.
Specifically for my car that 3rd pass was pretty well dialed in mechanically and shifting.
There's some room on the launch, in the tune, and in air.
Thanks
I had to re-learn a few things I want to share.
You have to stay off the limiter. Even if you can't hear it or detect it, if you invoke the limiter you will lose time and mph. So if you have access to logging software check closely and see and make sure you are not triggering it.
In my car it's actually better to slightly short shift than nick the limiter.
On my best pass I short shifted the 1-2 slightly (150 rpms) and the 2-3 (100 rpms) and the car responded favorably.
I also feel that each gear should not be shifted at the exact same rpm for the absolute maximum performance.
So make sure you play with shift points and see what works and write it down because it can make a significant difference.
Manual guys: If you have an adjustable master cylinder then utilize it. Make sure you are getting enough fluid to get clean shifts and pay attention to air gap in the clutch. Some guys getting locked out of gear at high rpm may need to open up that air gap to allow clutch to disengage and/or engage. Try and keep the clutch as cool as possible at all times and that also means not overdoing the burnout.
This stuff is fine tuning after you car is close to being dialed in but it makes a difference.
And when you make an adjustment and it works, you gain confidence in your ability and that in turn leads to better performance. It's as much a mental game as any sport especially for the manual guys.
Specifically for my car that 3rd pass was pretty well dialed in mechanically and shifting.
There's some room on the launch, in the tune, and in air.
Thanks
If you feel like you are getting locked out of a gear at high rpm and you believe the trans/clutch is mechanically sound then I would:
1) Do the Ranger method of flushing out the fluid
2) Make sure you have enough throw in your pedal which will likely push more fluid and increase the air gap inside the clutch.
A shorter pedal throw can be beneficial for drag racing as long as it doesn't impede the shifting.
Keep in mind that the clutch gets hot after the burnout. Also, clutch and/or fluid can and will get hot on the launch and shifts. As it gets hotter the fluid can exceed boiling point and not be as effective as well as the clutch material expands and can decrease the air gap. Both reactions can cause difficulty in shifting.
So it's beneficial to keep the fluid as cool and clean as possible, make sure your injecting enough of it, and do everything possible not to overheat the clutch in the burnout and on the launch. Giving a little extra air gap can make all the difference.
1) Do the Ranger method of flushing out the fluid
2) Make sure you have enough throw in your pedal which will likely push more fluid and increase the air gap inside the clutch.
A shorter pedal throw can be beneficial for drag racing as long as it doesn't impede the shifting.
Keep in mind that the clutch gets hot after the burnout. Also, clutch and/or fluid can and will get hot on the launch and shifts. As it gets hotter the fluid can exceed boiling point and not be as effective as well as the clutch material expands and can decrease the air gap. Both reactions can cause difficulty in shifting.
So it's beneficial to keep the fluid as cool and clean as possible, make sure your injecting enough of it, and do everything possible not to overheat the clutch in the burnout and on the launch. Giving a little extra air gap can make all the difference.
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,308
Likes: 157
From: NJ
I don't use it as much as I should.
Dig
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 1,137
From: Port Saint Lucie FLORIDA & HONDURAS
Rob can you tell us what your ideal launch is or could be and also what rpm's your shifting at per gear ? Maybe this will help others out that are delusional in thinking this hasn't happened. I've been reading and reviewing a lot of posts in other forums and spoken to a few that can't understand. You know the rest. Keep up the hard work making things happen. BTW I didn't think you would be that rusty driving. It's in your genes
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,106
Likes: 166
From: PA
Not really impressed... let us know when you hit 9's. Otherwise I'm gonna stay on the Godzilla forums and look at overweight, over powered race cars all day. So get out there and give me a reason to come in here. Otherwise pull a couple teeth for weight and get this over with!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,308
Likes: 157
From: NJ
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,308
Likes: 157
From: NJ
Rob can you tell us what your ideal launch is or could be and also what rpm's your shifting at per gear ? Maybe this will help others out that are delusional in thinking this hasn't happened. I've been reading and reviewing a lot of posts in other forums and spoken to a few that can't understand. You know the rest. Keep up the hard work making things happen. BTW I didn't think you would be that rusty driving. It's in your genes
This setup seems to like 6750-6800 on the 1-2, 6800 on the 2-3, and around 7000 on the 3-4. That changes slightly depending on track conditions.
It doesn't hurt me too much to short shift the 1-2 with this setup but I pay a big penalty if I even nick the limiter in any gear.
It's all in the details.
Dig
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 1,137
From: Port Saint Lucie FLORIDA & HONDURAS
Launch really depends on so many factors. I've been launching north of 5000rpms and as high as 6600rpms. I haven't mastered the launch with this setup yet. With ideal track prep in great air it should go mid 1.3x's. I'm not sure the tire I'm running is capable of that with a manual but if I get time to use a big boy tire I think that's realistic.
This setup seems to like 6750-6800 on the 1-2, 6800 on the 2-3, and around 7000 on the 3-4. That changes slightly depending on track conditions.
It doesn't hurt me too much to short shift the 1-2 with this setup but I pay a big penalty if I even nick the limiter in any gear.
It's all in the details.
This setup seems to like 6750-6800 on the 1-2, 6800 on the 2-3, and around 7000 on the 3-4. That changes slightly depending on track conditions.
It doesn't hurt me too much to short shift the 1-2 with this setup but I pay a big penalty if I even nick the limiter in any gear.
It's all in the details.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,308
Likes: 157
From: NJ
Yes, same trans.
The car is lightweight and efficient. I'm taking advantage of less drivetrain loss with the manual and trying to make it run down the track like an auto and not break momentum. I'm not giving up much on the shifts.
Now if I could get it to launch like an auto...
My race clutch sitting on my table is less than 1/2 the weight of this street/strip clutch in the car and will launch much better. That would likely save me .1 or more but I'm not interested in using it for this setup.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,059
Likes: 366
From: Kendall Park NJ
Rob,
Besides putting up fantastic numbers with your own car, it was amazing how you assisted everyone at the track. Who knew that you were an F-Body suspension guru. 
I believe that many had a great time whether setting a PB or meeting a goal since you helped them out that day. It was truly my pleasure to assist you. You have always helped me out either at the track or via phone when I needed it.
Thanks.
Besides putting up fantastic numbers with your own car
, it was amazing how you assisted everyone at the track. Who knew that you were an F-Body suspension guru. I believe that many had a great time whether setting a PB or meeting a goal since you helped them out that day. It was truly my pleasure to assist you. You have always helped me out either at the track or via phone when I needed it. Thanks.