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All things equal: MS3 vs BTR stage 3?

Old 11-03-2018, 04:35 PM
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turabo87
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Default All things equal: MS3 vs BTR stage 3?

Hi folks,

As far as the shelf grinds, Iím gravitating to either the MS3 or the BTR Stage 3. My reasons are the idle chop and the wot pull sound are what Iím looking for, torque and power gains, and supposedly not all driveability is lost with a good tune. Just wanted your thoughts on how they possibly compare in the real life, and honest driving experiences.

Mine is a 1999 FRC M6, and the plan is to support the cam with dual spring kit/hardened push rods, 1-7/8Ē long tubes, LS6 or Dorman Intake, and an SLP Blackwing CAI, and keep the M6 with its 3.42 gears. Aiming for 400-420RWHP and 380-400 TQ.
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:06 PM
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What heads?
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:00 PM
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Go for BTR stage 4, good cam. Pulls hard even past 7k, with good tune no issues with low idle, etc... With FAST 90/LS2 tb, kooks 1 3/4 headers, halltech intake and Monster LT1-S clutch i dynoed @ 442rwp/400flb tq

Last edited by Efx; 11-04-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 99blkfrc99 View Post
What heads?
Probably will end up with stock heads with my setup for simplicity sake and $$, unless they're a total choke to the build. I don't know my stock castings #.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Efx View Post
Go for BTR stage 4, good cam. Pulls hard even past 7k, with good tune no issues with low idle, etc... With FAST 90/LS2 tb, kooks 1 3/4 headers, halltech intake and Monster LT1-S clutch i dynoed @ 442rwp/400flb tq
Thanks for the recommendation; it's tempting because the numbers sound freaking amazing too. I've heard some idle videos of the BTR stage 4 and I think it's just too much chop for my taste, plus I don't see myself going past 6.5k-7k RPM. I wanted to keep the powerband closer to 2500-6500,have a slightly milder chop, and have a bit more drivability. I fell in love with the chop of the BTR stage 3 and TSP MS3 and seems to be more inline with my driving and goals, but I'd like to hear some honest opinions on each to see if I sway one way or the other, or a different route altogether.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by turabo87 View Post
Thanks for the recommendation; it's tempting because the numbers sound freaking amazing too. I've heard some idle videos of the BTR stage 4 and I think it's just too much chop for my taste, plus I don't see myself going past 6.5k-7k RPM. I wanted to keep the powerband closer to 2500-6500,have a slightly milder chop, and have a bit more drivability. I fell in love with the chop of the BTR stage 3 and TSP MS3 and seems to be more inline with my driving and goals, but I'd like to hear some honest opinions on each to see if I sway one way or the other, or a different route altogether.
find you casting number. It will help. Those cams are good but "peaky" if you will. If you have 241's I would strongly suggest at least some stock 243's if not some used ported ones. You will be a lot happier in the long run.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 99blkfrc99 View Post

find you casting number. It will help. Those cams are good but "peaky" if you will. If you have 241's I would strongly suggest at least some stock 243's if not some used ported ones. You will be a lot happier in the long run.
I couldnít see jack squat where I thought the casting number would be. It is blank. All I found was Ď42í on the circular casted indentation pointed in the attached pic, on the passenger side cyl head (by Cylinder #1) My build date is 03/99.

Blank.

Circle stamped hole shows a Ď42í.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by turabo87 View Post


I couldnít see jack squat where I thought the casting number would be. It is blank. All I found was Ď42í on the circular casted indentation pointed in the attached pic, on the passenger side cyl head (by Cylinder #1) My build date is 03/99.

Blank.

Circle stamped hole shows a Ď42í.
weird. Looks like someone ground them off. Ever had the intake off to look at the intake ports? What's your intake part number? Maybe someone has been in there already. That happened to me on my first car.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 99blkfrc99 View Post

weird. Looks like someone ground them off. Ever had the intake off to look at the intake ports? What's your intake part number? Maybe someone has been in there already. That happened to me on my first car.
Frustrating. I don't understand what's the point of grinding it off. I'll get to the bottom of it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the full casting number is underneath the valve covers. I'll try to get in there in the weekend, and change my valve cover gaskets while I'm at it. Where is the intake manifold PN located at?
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:34 AM
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Drivers side middle by the fuel injectors. Reason I ask if you have ever had the intake off is they might be ported already.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 99blkfrc99 View Post
Drivers side middle by the fuel injectors. Reason I ask if you have ever had the intake off is they might be ported already.
For reference, based on my FRC build date of 03/99, what should be the stock intake manifold and stock cylinder head castings?
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:10 PM
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Should be 853 heads.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Efx View Post
Go for BTR stage 4, good cam. Pulls hard even past 7k, with good tune no issues with low idle, etc... With FAST 90/LS2 tb, kooks 1 3/4 headers, halltech intake and Monster LT1-S clutch i dynoed @ 442rwp/400flb tq
I have the Stage IV BTR N/A cam. It's a great cam, but it shines up top. If you're looking for a good mid range cam, I'd stick with a stage 3 BTR cam. The stage 4 is overkill if you're not doing mostly high revs and high speed. This car rips like a raped ape with the stage 4 after about 3rd gear, but between 1st and 3rd, its not better than a nice mid range cam. Driving impressions with the stage 4 are positive from me. Drive-ability is good, lope is nice (I have a full straight through exhaust so mine is a bit loud, lol) and with the tune dialed in, cam surge really isn't an issue. Mine idles great at around 950 with A/C running. C5Z here with LS3, Vararam VR-B2, full BTR valvetrain, stock heads, stock intake manifold and throttle body, full straight exhaust, built trans and diff with 3.73 gears. Having a hard time deciding what intake manifold to go with. Kind of want to wait until BTR makes his for rectangle port heads. I think for the level of power you're looking for, you should reach that without too much trouble with a stage 3, supporting mods and a good tune.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:19 PM
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What durability from the new valve springs can I expect from a BTR dual valve spring setup with a big cam such as a BTR Stage 3 or MS3? MS3 is 0.600/0.600 lift while BTR Stage3 is 0.617"/0.592".
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:03 PM
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When I had BTR springs with their stage 4 they said check them at 20k miles
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 99blkfrc99 View Post
When I had BTR springs with their stage 4 they said check them at 20k miles
What's involved in checking the springs?
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:29 PM
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Tsp is poop. You dont need a stage 4 (unless you have a proper set up). Looks at a stage 2 for best results IMO. Regardless of what people say, you can over cam a LS.

If you wanna a max effort that still makes good torque do a 235/242 110lsa.
If Chop is your goal,a good tuner can make it chop harder.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:43 AM
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Sound, chop and dyno #s are the WRONG reasons to choose a cam especially with stock heads, compression and gears.
Dont get sucked up in big cam land
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
Sound, chop and dyno #s are the WRONG reasons to choose a cam especially with stock heads, compression and gears.
Dont get sucked up in big cam land
Deep down I know this is true. I'm easily 4-6 months away from this move on the Corvette. Right now I'm during the online research, learning, and building my budget for when the time is right and the savings are ripe. Once I hone in closer, I'll give BTR a call and talk about the goals, specs and cam selection. Meanwhile, I just wanted feedback from you guys and like I said, I'm open to changes on my direction for the build. I'm pretty head on the NA route though.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Efx View Post
What's involved in checking the springs?
Not much to check in my opinion. If its a dual spring setup, I guess you could check for a broken spring since in theory with one broken spring the valve would still operate and fully close for low rpm conditions. Just a guess.
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