You've replaced everything in the steering linkage, except the relay rod and the idler arm. You are now considering replacing those ,and perhaps the A frame shaft bushings as well , but you don't want to get an alignment until you get the "steering box " issue resolved. Really?

Positive caster and toe must be set to get the wheels to return to center. A new box or rebuilt box , and all the adjustments you can think of will not make the wheels return to center if you don't have positive caster

 

Send the box back and we will set the lash back up in it. All of the boxes we rebuild in house do have a tamper proof seal on them to keep someone from thinking that this would be good thing to turn and it lets us know that it has been done in case of warranty. Did you try and move the pitman arm by hand while watching the steering shaft? I realize I am not available to the phone when everyone needs me but if you leave me a message or send me an email like my voice mail instructs I will get back with you. I am not sitting at a desk all day, if I were then I would not be able to tell you what I have been able to tell you. Again if you send me the box we will set the lash back up on it, you will have to pay shipping going both ways but you will be paying that no matter what. I will not charge you to set the lash.
Justin

 

We don't operate like that and we are not some shade tree mechanics.

 

This is correct, however the king pin inclination built into the spindles is really what makes the steering return to center. Not to throw fuel on the fire but that should be checked before any alignment is done.

 

I'd ship it back to Zip as Justin is saying. Get it back, get an alignment, and be done. While the steering in these cars is not like today's vehicles, it also isn't something that is scary. You've got something wrong and might as well eliminate the steering box as a variable. Who cares about paying shipping both ways. Small price in the big scheme of things.

Patrick

 

I don't see any mention of how your car drove and steered prior to installing the rebuilt box. What was the problem you wanted the new box to solve?

 

Just my $0.02, I’ve met Justin although I don’t know him well, but I did know his dad fairly well. It’s a stand up family and business. I purchase lots there and never had issues with anything they have control over, including returns. If I bought, or sold an item, and it had been monkeyed around with by a shade tree mechanic, I would not expect nor accept any return. Much less the offer you received from ZIP.

That said, you must have had issues before and thought it to be the steering box, thus the change out. What were your issues? Maybe you misdiagnosed the problem and still have it? There are many moving parts to the steering. Any one or combination of wear can cause issues, including alignment. The starting point is the alignment rack. It will either fix or the mechanic will find your problem without the parts cannon.

 

If you've verified that a very small movement of the steering wheel moves the pitman arm a small amount, then I would think the box is fine. I'd be looking for slack stacking up in the other steering components.

 

The reason I bought the new box was because of sloppy but not dangerous steering. The problem now is that I had new wheels and tires put on along with four new ball joints and tie rods. Plus the new steering box and a total front and rear alignment. The slop is still there but the drive is worse than before. I am going to look for an alignment shop and then go from there.

 

I bought this car a few months ago. After it’s maiden voyage, I deemed it to be unsafe at any speed. After taking it to a competent old school shop, the problems were properly diagnosed. With the car on my lift, I really did not see or understand the real issues. The idler arm was the root problem with the lower ball joints playing a minor role.



Having ZIPS here in Richmond certainly makes my life easier. They have always been very professional and responsive to any issues I have ever had to deal with.
Good Luck

 

I don’t understand your comment. The OP said this is a 64, so I don’t think it has king pins like a C1. He did say that the upper and lower ball joints were replaced, and that certainly does affect alignment and caster.

 

Just another thought - what is the condition of the rag joint? Sometimes they can fail internally but still look god and be unsteady under load while driving. As long as you’re checking everything else.......

 

No, it doesn't. But the legacy term steering axis inclination is still applicable and is still used. It's the imaginary line drawn between the center lines of the upper and lower ball joints.

 

Yup. Which is why I said back in post # 15 that since the upper and lower ball joints have been replaced it’s time to check the alignment and especially the caster.

 

Ok but the box still needs to come out. You have adjusted the lash an it needs to be re set properly and you can't really do that in the car. If it is wrong and too tight is can also cause the car not to come back to center when the alignment is correct.

 

I just came back and read this thread.

Rudy, I don't like getting in the middle of something between a customer and vendor. Not knowing the complete story from each party plus the fact I am not a judge in any sense of the word makes this a bit awkward.

Based on our conversation yesterday this is what I suspect and propose for you to resolve this issue.

1- I would not get an alignment now, yes it needs no question about it but you could end up going back again so I would do it once, when it is time.
2- Check the rag joint for any play, You have a new one, while the new ones on the market are no where close to what Saginaw or Tom Riena made it should be stable enough that there is no lateral play in.
3- The box, without any question in my mind needs attention. Whether that is a result of the box as you received it or if your adjustments made to it -I can't say and no one can unless it is inspected by an experienced technician. It's your choice on how this is addressed but it needs to be since the box is the starting point for the system. No amount of Caster, camber or toe will resolve any issue within the box. Caster will make a difference on return but the box has to be right from the start. Box bearing preload, True Center, Arm center, and High Lash all have to be correct or it will not work- there is no discussion beyond this statement sorry to say. This holds true for any 63-82 Corvette Saginaw steering box and as mentioned earlier a rebuilder has to understand these 4 areas and to know how to correct them if there is a problem. Don't ask me to go into detail on how to do this though, you would have to attend my seminar on boxes and I am not going back to Carlisle.
4-Idler arm can be checked for play and replaced easy enough.
5- Manual center links don't go bad unless in an accident or damaged by someone working on the car. There is however a wear item in the manual centerlink often over looked and will result in play. That is the ball stud and seats in the end of the link. There is a rubber seal and strap over them and there is a pitman plug on the end that is adjusted for tension. What happens over years of use is the ball end gets worn and even gouged. Replacement stud kits are on the market from most vendors if you find it worn.

Correctly checked, blueprinted and aligned these cars are very responsive, there should be -0- lost motion in the box, on high lash, driving down the road. It should not be notchy or binding, it will return when the alignment is correct, and then you can go out an enjoy your 64, one of my favorite years.

Good luck to you, try not to stress over this, it can be corrected. I would be more concerned with that 64 differential but that's for another time.

 

What I should have said to explain it better is that there is an imaginary line between the upper and lower ball joints that coincides with the line that goes through the spindle where the rotor or drum mounts. If the spindle gets bent the relationship between these angles is lost and even though the alignment may be right is can still drive all wonky. I have had this happen before.

 

I have seen this happen many times in industry as well. In fact, we have a forum member right now on another thread attempting to use shims and bending to 'compensate' for a bent steering arm. He will not acknowledge that SAI is a built-in, non-adjustable, included angle. Oh well.
When I went to alignment school almost 40 years ago, we leaned that KAI(KIngpin Axis Inclination) was replaced with the generic term SAI (Steering Axis Inclination) in the '60's as cars generally all went away from kingpins to ball joints. KAI is still a viable term in the automotive industry, even if a car has ball joints.

 

I called a tire/alignment shop that I have known for more than 20 years today to see if they handle "Old cars". The old car guy is out until Monday of next week so I set up an appointment with him. The good news is that the office weenie said that the guy who handles old cars will not be in until Monday made me feel good. I did not want to see a 25-year-old with a computer degree looking at my car. I'll update this next week and see what the outcome is. I know I have made the big mistake of changing many things at the same time and then trying to solve a new issue. I feel like the alignment is off and if that is the case then the box will show up later during the driving.

 

Communicate to the old guy you want checked from the steering wheel to the tire patch. He’ll find what’s going on.