No, no. If anyone tries to bash you for asking reasonable questions just bash them back. There are no stupid questions in these forums... I've asked many and have always been helped out by experienced forum members eager to help.

 

and I agree! We have all had our shots so our bark is worse than our bite. A few of us old guys take a "sour pill" once in a while but it's not personal. And bc6152 is correct, there are no stupid questions. No one person knows it all, but collectively we come pretty close. It's absolutely the best resource for Corvette information you'll find in one place. I suggest you browse the various sub-forums, read up about what other C-5 owners are dealing with and get familiar with the place. We all love pictures of each other's cars, we love to share our problems and successes. Sure, it's the internet, so a thick skin comes in handy once in a while, but overall you will find us to be a good bunch.

 

I had a C7 Carbon 65 and took it to Carfagnos (now Bergey’s) in Plymouth Metting …… always great service. I now have a C8 that I bought at Bergey’s ….. the techs there are very good. I’ll just always go to them.

 

All good advice here so far. Not everybody is able to, or inclined to do their own work. I get that, and that's fine.

But it's a Gawd d@mn Chevy FFS! You don't need a specialized Corvette mechanic for most of the work. If a mechanic can't change a damper or fluids or spark plugs or shocks or sensors and work on a GM LS or small-block they should be barred from owning tools.

Ask your friends and neighbors if they deal with a local repair shop that has a good reputation and establish a relationship with them. If there really is something that's that specialized, you can get referrals from them or continue to pursue the inquiry here, but I'd doubt you'll ever need to.

Good luck with the search.

 

None of us was born with a set of tools, and an innate understanding of Internal Combustion engines. Every single one of us learned. And I'll wager that every single one of us as made some mistakes along the line.... Start with some nice simple stuff, and gradually move up to more complex stuff. Don't be afraid to ask for help - many people who frequent this forum are more than willing to help out those who are truly interested in learning....

Seriously - start off with something really simple like an oil change.

Get engine warm - Drive car up onto ramps. (Just to make getting underneath easier)
Unscrew Oil drain plug.
Wait 20 - 30 minutes for oil to drain.
Unscrew Old Oil Filter.
Take a paper towel and clean up oil filter mount area. Lube the gasket and threads of the new filter with new engine oil and screw on the new oil filter.
Screw Drain Plug back into the oil pan.
Add new oil
Start car and make sure there are no oil leaks. Drive car off ramps. DONE !!!

Tools needed:
Oil Drain Pan
Larger Funnel to Make Pouring New Oil into engine easier
Ramps or jack & Jack stands
Set of Metric Wrenches or Metric Socket Set
Oil Filter Wrench

Parts Needed:
New Oil FIlter
Motor Oil as recommended in Owners Manual

Then progress to stuff like an engine coolant change, or a battery change, then maybe a brake pad change.

 

To Mulboost, please check Pennsylvania law, you may have a remedy here. On a hunch, I looked up the relevant law here as many states have similar requirements for auto repair, here is the actual .gov link for your states law ( https://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Di....html&d=reduce ). The relevant code is 37 Pa Code 301.5. The key parts: based on your post, I assume because of the excessive sticker shock, you likely had no written estimate or agreement of charges up front before work began. Unfair competition subsection 2.

(2) Failing to record in writing and to provide a copy of the record to the customer, where possible, prior to commencing repairs on the vehicle of a customer.

The next pertinent section, 3
(3) Charging a customer for repairs which were not authorized in writing or charging a customer a price for agreed-upon maintenance or repair services which price, including parts and labor, was not authorized in writing or displayed in a clear and conspicuous manner on the premises. If the repair shop is unable to obtain advance written authorization because the specific repairs or costs thereof are not known when the vehicle is delivered for repair, the customer shall be so informed and shall be afforded the opportunity to select one of the following options:
(i) No repairs may be performed until the customer is notified of the exact nature of the repairs to be performed and the total price to be charged, including parts and labor and the oral or written authorization of the customer to perform the repairs is obtained.
(ii) Repairs may be initiated, but, if repairs will exceed a price specified in advance by the customer, the oral or written authorization of the customer to proceed further shall be obtained.
(iii) Repair of the described problem may be authorized without limitation of price provided the customer is informed of the hourly labor rate prior to commencement of repairs.

I'm guessing they didn't permit any of those options upfront, which is a violation. I'm guessing if you knew the labor rate was excessive (seems they have different labor rates, not very straightforward on the receipt though). Final subsection that applies the most (7):

(7) Failing to remedy promptly, at no charge to the customer, a repair or maintenance service performed by it on the customer’s vehicle which was not performed in a skilled and workmanlike manner; provided that the customer promptly complains or brings the matter to the attention of the repair shop.

You had explicit complaints listed in the invoice that you paid excessively for that still were not addressed (I think #7 is your strongest argument, but I bet they violated the other provisions listed above too based on your story). As this is a $40,000.00 issue, I doubt you would be in what would be small claims court for PA PA. I would seriously consider an attorney, but prevention is the best solution and definitely get estimates upfront with expected labor hours and cost especially if you have a car that might mark you as a person that has money to be taken advantage of. Finally, I'm curious what you paid for your frame off restoration that came with these issues to begin with, sounds like you were taken advantage of there as well. Overheating engine, driveline issues, suspension issues, brake issues is not a successful frame off restoration.

 

OK, brain failure! Somehow I got the idea the shop in question was in CT, not PA. I admit I wondered why Bissabella mentioned going from Philly to that shop for an estimate, seemed like a long haul. Now I see they are in West Chester so it makes a lot more sense. Sorry if anything I may have posted previously caused anybody confusion.

 

mulboost - I read trough the invoices. The paperwork shows that the running rough was due to a "wire tie" preventing an intake valve from properly closing. That is not an easy thing to diagnose - and would probably take most mechanics way more than a few hours to figure out. Personally - I would have thought vacuum leak first - and I would have pulled and rebuilt the carb and maybe even done an Ignition tune up before I would have done the compression test that would have shown the problem. I can easily see a day or maybe even two days worth of labor to diagnose, and another day or two worth of labor to correct. Based on compression test results - I would have been setting up to pull the heads, and would have hopefully seen the problem when I got the intake manifold off. When you're paying $150/hour for labor - it adds up fast - that's $1,000/day. So - while it's horribly expensive, I can see a $3,000 - $4,000 in labor (and maybe $250 in parts) to diagnose and correct the running rough problem.

But that's not what the invoice shows... The invoice shows over $12,500 in labor up to that point..... And that is crazy. The other thing is that I see multiple times when it appears that more than $1,300 was charged on one day - that's more than 10 hours... I'm not aware of too many mechanics that work more than 10 hours a day...... There is something fishy there as well.

As for the tapping of the Crankshaft - I would agree that's not something most mechanics would have ever done, but it's hardly out of their swim lane to do. You should not have to have needed to get the car towed to your place to have that work done - although in retrospect - it's probably a good thing that the car is out of that shop.

 

Look,
I dont want to turn this into anything negative--but--I dont care if you are a grasshopper--
150.00 to put in rear end oil
300.00 to add brake fluid-
That's outrageous and takes minimal tools and talent.

You can buy a lot of tools for 5000.00
Ok, I'l concede that the ballancer takes specialized knowledge but the rest of are things anyone who owns and drives THESE cars away from home should be able to deal with on some level.
Also, there should be some sort of "get me home" tool kit in the car as well--then at least SOMEONE can help you even if you cant do it yourself.

$5000.00 should be quite the incentive for someone to learn how to do some basic things.
As for women---I dont buy it----We have a few gals in our club that are way,way ahead of many of the guys in the wrench turning department---they are definitely NOT light holders.
My only gripe with them is that they will spend an entire day up to their elbows in a gear box---wearing a silk blouse and gold earrings-and at the end of the day-not only does the damn thing work flawlessly BUT they and their clothes are as clean as when they started and I'm FILTHY!!!! Dont know how they manage it but it is good for laughs.

I dont mind spending money for services that I can not perform but the list above----to pay someone to do that is just throwing money away.
Just my.02cets worth.
Eddie

 

One size fits all, huh?

She did not state whether she is 25 or 75. There ARE 75 year old women who drive Corvettes. So they should do their own oil changes?

She did not state whether she lives in a place with on-street parking and no garage. So she should tear down something today, cart the tools and jack and jack stands into the apartment and resume tomorrow?

She did not state her physical condition. Some people are wheelchair-bound, but have special modifications to their car. So she should figure a way to reach the various parts of the car from a wheelchair?

She did not state what she may do for a living. She could be a fashion model. So she should show up for work with yesterday's grease on her chipped nail polish?

Listen, I don't know, nor care, any of that about her, I have a wife who has been with me 40+ years and understands my Corvette addiction even though she does not share it. But one of the biggest problems facing the country today is those - from .gov to neighbors to whatever else - who want to tell other people how they should live their life and what they "should" and "shouldn't" do. We have a new forum member who for reasons that are HER business, not mine or yours, does not do her own work. Last I knew, the forum, and Corvette ownership in general, has no requirement for turning a wrench yourself. Maybe rather than telling someone what they "should" do, listen to their situation and offer something that fits their needs. That's far more apt to keep them involved with the forum, and the Corvette hobby itself.

 

Eddie - by morning's light and with coffee in hand, my previous post seems a bit strong. You DID say "services that I [you] can't perform" and that's valid, with the point that what each of us can perform will vary greatly. And you ARE entitled to put in your 2 cents worth, as we all are. So I do see where you are coming from, and will note that I have been twisting wrenches starting with my first car at age 18. I'm still doing so, still making mistakes, still learning something new with each project - and still having fun. For ME, what you suggested we should be able to do is right on for now - if accident, illness or old age change things I'll have to farm out more than I do.

So I'll meet you part way, I'll grant your advice is good for many of us. But I'll leave the post as is, so we all can remember the variety of likes and dislikes and capabilities and circumstances that can make one person's right answer be wrong for someone else.

I'll leave it at that, my plan for the day is to drive 25 minutes to the shop, turn on the heat, and spend some time on a cold cement floor looking up at the underside of my '64 with ice-cold tools falling from my numb hands! That's my idea of fun, warped as it may seem.

 

I do all of my own work but I also work in a car dealership so I am usually pretty objective about stuff like this... all I can say is WOW. I got dizzy halfway through reading that! Not only do they have a very heavy pen but if I am reading correctly, it seems like they charged multiple times for stuff they had to do over? Diagnostic time is one thing, but it seemed like they were just throwing parts at it with the clock running! Am I reading this wrong or was the oil pan on and off 2 (possibly 3) times? Then they rebuilt the carb, that didn't fix it so they tried another carb which also didn't fix it (proving the rebuild was misdiagnosed) but they still charged for the carb rebuild AND the test swap? That's not diagnosis, that's expensive guessing.

 

Go to Corvette Paramedics in Columbus, NJ. Excellent mechanics, honest and fair priced.

 

Go to Corvette Paramedics in Columbus, NJ. Excellent mechanics, honest and fair priced.

 

Hey,
No offense taken. I might have come on a bit stron myself. But when I saw 150.00(per hr) next to add rear end gear oil it set me off. If I were on my last five breaths I would not pay anyone that kind of money for something like that. I understand thet the pros have a shop and a lot of overhead to hande if they want to stay in business but if thay all charged that much for so little "mundane" jobs no one would ever go to them. That is why they invented the "flat rate book."

My comment about the gals was actually meant to support them in all of this, but I guess it was misunderstood.

Anyway---the post that started all of this seemed to be way out of line from the get go. I was still reeling from a go round with a shipping company that tried to charge me 1200.00 to ship a 50 lb---6 ft sailboat rudder from Mich to CA. The guys in our shop here were paying pros to deliver cars from AZ to MO and FL 1500.00. How can you pay 1500 to ship a car and 1200 to ship something as small as a rudder. Still cant figure it out.

Thanks again for your comments and I also value your input and info .
Keep the faith
Eddie

 

We're all good, Eddie and I totally agree the charges OP was hit with were insane. If somebody has the skills, time and facility, it can save you time, money and headaches to do as much as possible yourself.

And I hear you on shipping, sometimes you'd be better off to throw something in your truck and drive 5 states away than to pay what they want to charge. Good luck with the rudder hassle!

 

Mulboost, when you have a minute, I would like to speak with you. A close friend of mine is having a lot of issues with County Corvette as well. Do you have time to talk? I tried to message you but your account won’t let me.

 

If still looking for a trusted shop you can check with The Vette Shop in Bucks County, PA. I have had work done there and was satisfied. They are very knowledgeable.

https://www.thevetteshop.com/

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but if you can randomly choose “any high school kid,” in 2023, where they have anxiety attacks at the suggestion of changing a tire, then I’ll pay the kid to change the harmonic balancer myself.

 

Sure, you can shoot me an email nhodoon@gmail.com