X_03_Cobra_guy

I am sooooo glad I went with MTI over Dynotech for my A4 upgrade and
retune!!!!

X_03_Cobra_guy

I am soooooo glad I went with MTI over dynotech with my A4 upgrade and
retune. Not only did I save $2500 bucks I got the car back running better
than it ever has. I mean smooth idle...great shifting manners, no stalling, clean tailpipe etc etc. I am not one to plug for tuners but MTI is dam good.
Clean shop ... got it done BEFORE the scheduled pick up and BELOW budget!
WOW. I had one of the bad stealth cam grinds so as a favor they cut me
a break on the trans upgrade and dyno tune. Now that is customer service.!

X_03_Cobra_guy

I am soooooo glad I went with MTI over dynotech with my A4 upgrade and
retune. Not only did I save $2500 bucks I got the car back running better
than it ever has. I mean smooth idle...great shifting manners, no stalling, clean tailpipe etc etc. I am not one to plug for tuners but MTI is dam good.
Clean shop ... got it done BEFORE the scheduled pick up and BELOW budget!
WOW. I had one of the bad stealth cam grinds so as a favor they cut me
a break on the trans upgrade and dyno tune. Now that is customer service.!

Geneus

Oy vey, that gave me a headache just reading it. Where's my Bayer?

Dope

Ahh, you know you could have just replied to your own thread 2 times with all the emails, instead of creating new threads?

Dope

mdhmi

I skimmed through all three of your posts on this subject. Without taking sides it does appear that DTE made every reasonable effort to accommodate you.

Mark

Bink

Sure but who wants to wade through all of that? It's better to split it up. Then if a Guy or Gal wants more info they have it. Kind of like an Abstract.

The Key here is Views. The more views the better informed we'll be as a Group.

Bink

I think you're skimming needs some depth.
The only accommodations were to get my car into Phil's shop and my $8000 into Phil's Bank Account.


Please, read some more and show me where they were accomodating.

Bink

I'm glad you went to MTI too!

DTE Powertrain

Here we go again with this redundancy when the issue has LONG since been resolved and it seems as if this person doesn't have anything better to do at this point but to stir up a pot that has LONG since cooled down over a half a year ago now for his own agenda...for whatever reason. We are not going to engage this issue all over again when the very same thing we would state today is what we told you back then. I will however professionally address the gross innacuracies you have stated in this last post (as we have done for you in the past many, many, many times) to set the record straight; as you have had a tendancy in the past to "pad" your comments a bit to try to validate your inaccurate claims.

First of all, you did not request permission from DTE to publically post personal emails that were meant for you directly (although we have never had anything to hide)...shame on you and you of all people should be more professional than that, as you are in the type of business that requires confidentiality between you and your client. You should know better...... Ironically, the very same emails you posted here publically without permission are the very same type of responses that we would state to you on this very day, as our position has NOT changed. In a way, you saved us a LOT of typing, so I will include some of what we told you then, for this post now.

The following Monday, April 19, I'm informed of a mistake in parts ordering and a delay in car delivery date - it will now be two and a half weeks.
You are correct. The rollcage was ordered through Wolf Racecraft and they did not process the order in time as they informed us they would and that because of it, it would take a bit longer to get it shipped to us. Nothing big here.....

On May 5 Phil informs me that he does not have a 4.10 gearset for my diff buildup!!
That is also correct, because at that time Motive Gear was on a national backorder for the 3.90/4.10 ratio and everyone already knows/knew that as well; as shortage of components from the manufacturer was completely out of our control...

I had parked on an incline in the parking lot with the nose of the car downhill. In reverse and on a grade I backed out and drove to the 1st light.
I do remember you stating that, but you selectively forgot to mention here that you had to "slip" the clutch up the incline to get it parked. Joel, with that big cam you had in there, I can only imagine how hard you had to slip it back it UP an incline...backwords! We informed you that NO clutch should be slipped at all when it is that new so that it would not get glazed from the localized heat from slippage. You must have thought that this didn't matter....

It was my fault according to him.
I did NOT state that it was your fault right then and there, so please get your facts straight. What I told you was..He stated that I'd slipped the clutch and he couldn't say how it would do.

Over the next several days it became progressively worse with increasing vibration
I'm sure it would after having been possibly overheated like it was by slipping it up a hill with a cam that loped as hard as your's did....

He said I should bring it in - he would not pick it up.
First of all you didn't ask and second, we don't have a trailer to get it anyway.

I had to leave it in the DynoTech lot as Phil was busy and wouldn't meet us to receive the Vette.
I did not say I WOULDN'T meet you in the lot, I said I COULDN'T because I was out of town when you called about when the car was being dropped off. When I returned back into town that night, I immediately put it inside for you so it wouldn't set outside any longer. It did NOT set outside overnight!

At this point I was flabbergasted that Phil had no interest in trying to determine the cause of the failure!
You've GOT to be kidding.... When have you EVER known me not to be helpful to you?? I think you know better than that Joel! Nice try.....

I was dumbfounded that a Forum Vendor would proceed in this manner.
Again, see the above response..... Geezzz..

The following day he replied that he/ Dynotech Engineering and Exedy had decided to split the costs out of generosity to the customer. However, I would be charged $324!!
I told you that Exedy was willing to replace the clutch even though they didn't have too and that DTE would normally charge $649 for the clutch install, but we would be willing to meet you half way and assume half the charge, as this issue was NOT caused by improper installation.

I explained that my main concern was that no problem had been identified. Phil Rickard had stated that the 2nd install would be exactly as the 1st - as they had done nothing wrong.
No problem was found because there was no problem with the install in the first place... The second part of your text here is also correct.

How would we prevent this from happening again?
Don't slip the clutch when it's new....

That a $2100 clutch should not be installed without replacing certain items.
That is correct, that is why we replaced the pilot and release bearing while we were in there just for good measure...

At this point I was completely fed up with DynoTech Eng. and did not discuss my car further with them until it was completed.
Why did you refuse to have contact with us any longer when we were trying to help you? Insn't that counter-productive to stop communicating with your tuner???

So I call Tom at Caroline Clutch! He explained that when they are not broken in before dynoing it will glaze them and cause chattering. He said he warned all of his dealers of this. Then I explained my situation with DynoTech.
No you didn't!! You JUST stated above that you did not contact us any further until the car was completed.... Which one is it Joel??????

On June 29 I recieved an email from Phil Rickard stating that they had a replacement clutch and they would work my car into their schedule.
Which we did, TWO DAYS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE so you could get your car back sooner......

Phil basically said sue me ...I'll throw a cover over your car.
Geezzz, I've seen it all now! I NEVER put it that way and the emails you posted of our response to you indicate that... Stick to the facts, not your opinions... Also, I said we would cover it up so that it would NOT get dirty from shop dust, etc in an effort to protect YOUR car.....

Mine was dynoed after the install too!
Joel, it takes heat to damage a new clutch and heat is generated in a clutch assy. by slippage. When a car is on a chassis dyno, there is NO slippage and the pull is a controlled, linear acceleration from a rolling start of 60 MPH... There was NO slippage here, hence no damage.

THEY DIDN'T GREASE THE INPUT SHAFT!!! A twin disk setup needs to have a greased shaft so that the floater and disks can easily slide.
Incorrect... If one greases that shaft, clutch dust will accumulate on the grease and cause clutch plate binding/sticking AND any excess grease will sling off the shaft and onto the clutch making it slip when under power, that is why no grease was used on the shaft. It's really quite simple....

Tom said he told Phil Rickard that when he showed the ictures to him!!! In fact Tom said he thought about contacting me but he didn't know how to as he didn't know I was on CorvetteForum!
That is a completely false statement Joel......

So the bottom line - Phil Rickard knew all along two things he did WRONG to my Car and ONE THAT CAUSED THE CLUTCH FAILURE!!
You are grossly incorrect here Joel and our positive reputation on this board proves you otherwise....

I paid the $324 and picked up my car. The clutch has performed flawlessly - I love it. The first clutch grabbed and chattered from the start. This clutch is smoooth!
As we told you earlier, we did nothing different with the second install than what we had done with the first, other than give you ANOTHER new pilot AND release bearing for FREE- AGAIN as another gesture of customer service, even though the new parts we had installed just a few hundred miles earlier were fine. The clutch will always last longer when it is not slipped excessivly from when it new until broken-in from the start and since the second one wasn't abused like the first one was, it's performance has been flawless to date as you state.

It's not about the $324 - it's about right and wrong and business ethics. Integrity.
Our positive customer support and integrity has well been established in this community and on this board and I'm sure you are well aware of it...


****Here is my last response to you back then in case you don't remember*****
"Joel,
Sometimes it becomes clearly obvious to a company that no matter what is done for a customer to try to give them good customer service and the willingness to bend over backwards for them multiple times, that there is just NOTHING that can be done to make them happy... In this case, this is referring to you. I am going to present you with the ACCURATE FACTS once again, as it seems like you consistently choose to forget them (or ignore them for whatever reason) to try and validate your claim and refusal to pay a bill that is NOT unfounded or fraudulent.

FACT 1: Shortly after this issue started, I clearly stated to you multiple times in emails, the protocol on what we were going to do and how we would handle the various types of scenarios depending on what we found upon disassembly. You took immediate defense of our common standard policy that EVERYONE else abides by and chose to ignore it for whatever reason, even though we hadn't even seen the car to make an evaluation.

FACT 2:You stated I had an attitude...I had none, just stating our policy in a very professional manner.

FACT 3: You stated that we were refusing to take responsibility...we did not make that claim upon initial emails of the issue, but you assumed that was the case and convinced yourself otherwise.

FACT 4: After disassembly, I sent you, Exedy and Carolina Clutch pictures of the burnt clutch from the car and explained very clearly on how it could of occurred and you immediately you stated that it was our/Exedy's fault for the clutch failure...even though you admitted to slipping the clutch to park the car on an incline prior to the disassembly.

FACT 5: What you don't know is that I went to bat for you with Exedy to try and get something done that very day we took it apart and then sent you an email explaining that Exedy AND DTE were willing to help you. Instead, you went behind my back and spoke to Bruce that very day and bad mouthed me and my company to him before you even read the email and then had the audacity not to even acknowledge with any type of contact what we were going to do for you to try and help you nor a common thank you or anything. In fact, after I stated to you in my emails that I sent everyone involved copies of our emails conversations, you immediately refrained in communicating any more other than just one or two sentence emails since you knew that they
would see everything you said. Instead you still remained defiant and
demanding despite what we had done for you with Exedy and what DTE was offering you as a fair break.

FACT 6: When we found out that Exedy was going to replace the clutch at no charge to you, DTE also offered to split the installation labor with you as a gesture of customer satisfaction, even though we had no obligation to do anything due to the severe clutch abuse that was found upon disassembly. You were informed of the protocol multiple times before we even got to this point, but you chose to ignore them and do what "you want" regardless of standard policy that was made VERY CLEAR to you.

FACT 7: As I told you in a past email last Friday 7-2-04, we were not even going to put your car into our schedule to get at the car to install the replacement clutch until Thursday 7-8-04, but we had a break in the shop, so we got right at your car EARLY so YOU could have it sooner. The car was completed two days ahead of schedule and you were informed of its early completion promptly. An email was sent to you informing you of this and you NEVER responded... This was not enough for you either.....

FACT 8: We installed ANOTHER new pilot bearing AND release bearing AGAIN just for good measure, even though we didn't have to, just to make sure everything was right for YOU. We didn't charge you for this either, even though we had the right to...

FACT 9: Now, after all that we have done for you in getting this taken
care of in the quickest, cleanest manner possible, you still remain defiant and refuse to pay a bill that is more than a generous gesture of good customer service towards you and you STILL are demanding of even MORE.....

FACT 10: Exedy has NEVER had a clutch failure of this type by ANYONE after a few hundred of them sold and now you step up and say that the clutch "just failed"???? The issue becomes VERY clear here on where the problem lies... Not the clutch, not the installer, but the driver..... The statistics are NOT in your favor here Joel and it is very suspicious that YOU are the ONLY one having problems with these clutches........

The bottom line is this Joel, DTE has gone above and beyond what we had to do to take care of this in the simplest, cleanest fashion possible and have extended you every possible gesture of customer satisfaction, but it still is not enough... We even stayed late (9pm) just for you when you picked it up the first time, even though you stated that you would be there by 9pm, but got there 1/2 hour late..... We didn't say anything, but stayed until you arrived to help YOU!!!!!

We made everything clear to you up front before we began on how we would handle the matter depending on what we found on disassembly so that you were perfectly clear on the matter. We went to Exedy for YOU to try and help the situation and get something done, even though you bad mouthed DTE repeatedly during the whole time we were working for YOU. We installed new components AGAIN just to insure everything was right for YOU at NO CHARGE to YOU.

We offered to split the installation labor, even though we had no obligation to and you REFUSED to meet us halfway. YOU burned the clutch up Joel, we didn't and we will not take responsibility for your negligence in not breaking it in properly and slipping it excessively. That clutch left here in smooth working order and was operating as designed and it wasn't until you abused it by slipping it excessively that all the problems stated to arise. DTE and myself have extended a helping hand to you multiple times over the last few weeks, only to have you bite it and demand more and make false, inaccurate claims against DTE time and time again."


The bottom line here Joel is that DTE went about this issue in a very professional manner and the emails you decided to publically post here without our permission clearly indicates that. We tried to help you in more ways than you wish to recognize in an effort to provide you with good customer service, but it was never enough for you no matter what we did to help YOU.....

Our positive customer service has been the same way from the day we opened and it will remain that way now, despite what you try to portray here and our solid customer base to date can testify to that.

We're glad you like the rollcage and HD differential we installed for you back then as well and we hope you had a good Thanksgiving as we did Happy Holidays to you in the future as well, have a nice day and good luck with next years's race!

Best Regards,
Phil- DTE

DTE Powertrain

Here we go again with this redundancy when the issue has LONG since been resolved and it seems as if this person doesn't have anything better to do at this point but to stir up a pot that has LONG since cooled down over a half a year ago now for his own agenda...for whatever reason. We are not going to engage this issue all over again when the very same thing we would state today is what we told you back then. I will however professionally address the gross innacuracies you have stated in this last post (as we have done for you in the past many, many, many times) to set the record straight; as you have had a tendancy in the past to "pad" your comments a bit to try to validate your inaccurate claims.

First of all, you did not request permission from DTE to publically post personal emails that were meant for you directly (although we have never had anything to hide)...shame on you and you of all people should be more professional than that, as you are in the type of business that requires confidentiality between you and your client. You should know better...... Ironically, the very same emails you posted here publically without permission are the very same type of responses that we would state to you on this very day, as our position has NOT changed. In a way, you saved us a LOT of typing, so I will include some of what we told you then, for this post now.

The following Monday, April 19, I'm informed of a mistake in parts ordering and a delay in car delivery date - it will now be two and a half weeks.
You are correct. The rollcage was ordered through Wolf Racecraft and they did not process the order in time as they informed us they would and that because of it, it would take a bit longer to get it shipped to us. Nothing big here.....

On May 5 Phil informs me that he does not have a 4.10 gearset for my diff buildup!!
That is also correct, because at that time Motive Gear was on a national backorder for the 3.90/4.10 ratio and everyone already knows/knew that as well; as shortage of components from the manufacturer was completely out of our control...

I had parked on an incline in the parking lot with the nose of the car downhill. In reverse and on a grade I backed out and drove to the 1st light.
I do remember you stating that, but you selectively forgot to mention here that you had to "slip" the clutch up the incline to get it parked. Joel, with that big cam you had in there, I can only imagine how hard you had to slip it back it UP an incline...backwords! We informed you that NO clutch should be slipped at all when it is that new so that it would not get glazed from the localized heat from slippage. You must have thought that this didn't matter....

It was my fault according to him.
I did NOT state that it was your fault right then and there, so please get your facts straight. What I told you was..He stated that I'd slipped the clutch and he couldn't say how it would do.

Over the next several days it became progressively worse with increasing vibration
I'm sure it would after having been possibly overheated like it was by slipping it up a hill with a cam that loped as hard as your's did....

He said I should bring it in - he would not pick it up.
First of all you didn't ask and second, we don't have a trailer to get it anyway.

I had to leave it in the DynoTech lot as Phil was busy and wouldn't meet us to receive the Vette.
I did not say I WOULDN'T meet you in the lot, I said I COULDN'T because I was out of town when you called about when the car was being dropped off. When I returned back into town that night, I immediately put it inside for you so it wouldn't set outside any longer. It did NOT set outside overnight!

At this point I was flabbergasted that Phil had no interest in trying to determine the cause of the failure!
You've GOT to be kidding.... When have you EVER known me not to be helpful to you?? I think you know better than that Joel! Nice try.....

I was dumbfounded that a Forum Vendor would proceed in this manner.
Again, see the above response..... Geezzz..

The following day he replied that he/ Dynotech Engineering and Exedy had decided to split the costs out of generosity to the customer. However, I would be charged $324!!
I told you that Exedy was willing to replace the clutch even though they didn't have too and that DTE would normally charge $649 for the clutch install, but we would be willing to meet you half way and assume half the charge, as this issue was NOT caused by improper installation.

I explained that my main concern was that no problem had been identified. Phil Rickard had stated that the 2nd install would be exactly as the 1st - as they had done nothing wrong.
No problem was found because there was no problem with the install in the first place... The second part of your text here is also correct.

How would we prevent this from happening again?
Don't slip the clutch when it's new....

That a $2100 clutch should not be installed without replacing certain items.
That is correct, that is why we replaced the pilot and release bearing while we were in there just for good measure...

At this point I was completely fed up with DynoTech Eng. and did not discuss my car further with them until it was completed.
Why did you refuse to have contact with us any longer when we were trying to help you? Insn't that counter-productive to stop communicating with your tuner???

So I call Tom at Caroline Clutch! He explained that when they are not broken in before dynoing it will glaze them and cause chattering. He said he warned all of his dealers of this. Then I explained my situation with DynoTech.
No you didn't!! You JUST stated above that you did not contact us any further until the car was completed.... Which one is it Joel??????

On June 29 I recieved an email from Phil Rickard stating that they had a replacement clutch and they would work my car into their schedule.
Which we did, TWO DAYS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE so you could get your car back sooner......

Phil basically said sue me ...I'll throw a cover over your car.
Geezzz, I've seen it all now! I NEVER put it that way and the emails you posted of our response to you indicate that... Stick to the facts, not your opinions... Also, I said we would cover it up so that it would NOT get dirty from shop dust, etc in an effort to protect YOUR car.....

Mine was dynoed after the install too!
Joel, it takes heat to damage a new clutch and heat is generated in a clutch assy. by slippage. When a car is on a chassis dyno, there is NO slippage and the pull is a controlled, linear acceleration from a rolling start of 60 MPH... There was NO slippage here, hence no damage.

THEY DIDN'T GREASE THE INPUT SHAFT!!! A twin disk setup needs to have a greased shaft so that the floater and disks can easily slide.
Incorrect... If one greases that shaft, clutch dust will accumulate on the grease and cause clutch plate binding/sticking AND any excess grease will sling off the shaft and onto the clutch making it slip when under power, that is why no grease was used on the shaft. It's really quite simple....

Tom said he told Phil Rickard that when he showed the ictures to him!!! In fact Tom said he thought about contacting me but he didn't know how to as he didn't know I was on CorvetteForum!
That is a completely false statement Joel......

So the bottom line - Phil Rickard knew all along two things he did WRONG to my Car and ONE THAT CAUSED THE CLUTCH FAILURE!!
You are grossly incorrect here Joel and our positive reputation on this board proves you otherwise....

I paid the $324 and picked up my car. The clutch has performed flawlessly - I love it. The first clutch grabbed and chattered from the start. This clutch is smoooth!
As we told you earlier, we did nothing different with the second install than what we had done with the first, other than give you ANOTHER new pilot AND release bearing for FREE- AGAIN as another gesture of customer service, even though the new parts we had installed just a few hundred miles earlier were fine. The clutch will always last longer when it is not slipped excessivly from when it new until broken-in from the start and since the second one wasn't abused like the first one was, it's performance has been flawless to date as you state.

It's not about the $324 - it's about right and wrong and business ethics. Integrity.
Our positive customer support and integrity has well been established in this community and on this board and I'm sure you are well aware of it...


****Here is my last response to you back then in case you don't remember*****
"Joel,
Sometimes it becomes clearly obvious to a company that no matter what is done for a customer to try to give them good customer service and the willingness to bend over backwards for them multiple times, that there is just NOTHING that can be done to make them happy... In this case, this is referring to you. I am going to present you with the ACCURATE FACTS once again, as it seems like you consistently choose to forget them (or ignore them for whatever reason) to try and validate your claim and refusal to pay a bill that is NOT unfounded or fraudulent.

FACT 1: Shortly after this issue started, I clearly stated to you multiple times in emails, the protocol on what we were going to do and how we would handle the various types of scenarios depending on what we found upon disassembly. You took immediate defense of our common standard policy that EVERYONE else abides by and chose to ignore it for whatever reason, even though we hadn't even seen the car to make an evaluation.

FACT 2:You stated I had an attitude...I had none, just stating our policy in a very professional manner.

FACT 3: You stated that we were refusing to take responsibility...we did not make that claim upon initial emails of the issue, but you assumed that was the case and convinced yourself otherwise.

FACT 4: After disassembly, I sent you, Exedy and Carolina Clutch pictures of the burnt clutch from the car and explained very clearly on how it could of occurred and you immediately you stated that it was our/Exedy's fault for the clutch failure...even though you admitted to slipping the clutch to park the car on an incline prior to the disassembly.

FACT 5: What you don't know is that I went to bat for you with Exedy to try and get something done that very day we took it apart and then sent you an email explaining that Exedy AND DTE were willing to help you. Instead, you went behind my back and spoke to Bruce that very day and bad mouthed me and my company to him before you even read the email and then had the audacity not to even acknowledge with any type of contact what we were going to do for you to try and help you nor a common thank you or anything. In fact, after I stated to you in my emails that I sent everyone involved copies of our emails conversations, you immediately refrained in communicating any more other than just one or two sentence emails since you knew that they
would see everything you said. Instead you still remained defiant and
demanding despite what we had done for you with Exedy and what DTE was offering you as a fair break.

FACT 6: When we found out that Exedy was going to replace the clutch at no charge to you, DTE also offered to split the installation labor with you as a gesture of customer satisfaction, even though we had no obligation to do anything due to the severe clutch abuse that was found upon disassembly. You were informed of the protocol multiple times before we even got to this point, but you chose to ignore them and do what "you want" regardless of standard policy that was made VERY CLEAR to you.

FACT 7: As I told you in a past email last Friday 7-2-04, we were not even going to put your car into our schedule to get at the car to install the replacement clutch until Thursday 7-8-04, but we had a break in the shop, so we got right at your car EARLY so YOU could have it sooner. The car was completed two days ahead of schedule and you were informed of its early completion promptly. An email was sent to you informing you of this and you NEVER responded... This was not enough for you either.....

FACT 8: We installed ANOTHER new pilot bearing AND release bearing AGAIN just for good measure, even though we didn't have to, just to make sure everything was right for YOU. We didn't charge you for this either, even though we had the right to...

FACT 9: Now, after all that we have done for you in getting this taken
care of in the quickest, cleanest manner possible, you still remain defiant and refuse to pay a bill that is more than a generous gesture of good customer service towards you and you STILL are demanding of even MORE.....

FACT 10: Exedy has NEVER had a clutch failure of this type by ANYONE after a few hundred of them sold and now you step up and say that the clutch "just failed"???? The issue becomes VERY clear here on where the problem lies... Not the clutch, not the installer, but the driver..... The statistics are NOT in your favor here Joel and it is very suspicious that YOU are the ONLY one having problems with these clutches........

The bottom line is this Joel, DTE has gone above and beyond what we had to do to take care of this in the simplest, cleanest fashion possible and have extended you every possible gesture of customer satisfaction, but it still is not enough... We even stayed late (9pm) just for you when you picked it up the first time, even though you stated that you would be there by 9pm, but got there 1/2 hour late..... We didn't say anything, but stayed until you arrived to help YOU!!!!!

We made everything clear to you up front before we began on how we would handle the matter depending on what we found on disassembly so that you were perfectly clear on the matter. We went to Exedy for YOU to try and help the situation and get something done, even though you bad mouthed DTE repeatedly during the whole time we were working for YOU. We installed new components AGAIN just to insure everything was right for YOU at NO CHARGE to YOU.

We offered to split the installation labor, even though we had no obligation to and you REFUSED to meet us halfway. YOU burned the clutch up Joel, we didn't and we will not take responsibility for your negligence in not breaking it in properly and slipping it excessively. That clutch left here in smooth working order and was operating as designed and it wasn't until you abused it by slipping it excessively that all the problems stated to arise. DTE and myself have extended a helping hand to you multiple times over the last few weeks, only to have you bite it and demand more and make false, inaccurate claims against DTE time and time again."


The bottom line here Joel is that DTE went about this issue in a very professional manner and the emails you decided to publically post here without our permission clearly indicates that. We tried to help you in more ways than you wish to recognize in an effort to provide you with good customer service, but it was never enough for you no matter what we did to help YOU.....

Our positive customer service has been the same way from the day we opened and it will remain that way now, despite what you try to portray here and our solid customer base to date can testify to that.

We're glad you like the rollcage and HD differential we installed for you back then as well and we hope you had a good Thanksgiving as we did Happy Holidays to you in the future as well, have a nice day and good luck with next years's race!

Best Regards,
Phil- DTE

DTE Powertrain

Here we go again with this redundancy when the issue has LONG since been resolved and it seems as if this person doesn't have anything better to do at this point but to stir up a pot that has LONG since cooled down over a half a year ago now for his own agenda...for whatever reason. We are not going to engage this issue all over again when the very same thing we would state today is what we told you back then. I will however professionally address the gross innacuracies you have stated in this last post (as we have done for you in the past many, many, many times) to set the record straight; as you have had a tendancy in the past to "pad" your comments a bit to try to validate your inaccurate claims.

First of all, you did not request permission from DTE to publically post personal emails that were meant for you directly (although we have never had anything to hide)...shame on you and you of all people should be more professional than that, as you are in the type of business that requires confidentiality between you and your client. You should know better...... Ironically, the very same emails you posted here publically without permission are the very same type of responses that we would state to you on this very day, as our position has NOT changed. In a way, you saved us a LOT of typing, so I will include some of what we told you then, for this post now.

The following Monday, April 19, I'm informed of a mistake in parts ordering and a delay in car delivery date - it will now be two and a half weeks.
You are correct. The rollcage was ordered through Wolf Racecraft and they did not process the order in time as they informed us they would and that because of it, it would take a bit longer to get it shipped to us. Nothing big here.....

On May 5 Phil informs me that he does not have a 4.10 gearset for my diff buildup!!
That is also correct, because at that time Motive Gear was on a national backorder for the 3.90/4.10 ratio and everyone already knows/knew that as well; as shortage of components from the manufacturer was completely out of our control...

I had parked on an incline in the parking lot with the nose of the car downhill. In reverse and on a grade I backed out and drove to the 1st light.
I do remember you stating that, but you selectively forgot to mention here that you had to "slip" the clutch up the incline to get it parked. Joel, with that big cam you had in there, I can only imagine how hard you had to slip it back it UP an incline...backwords! We informed you that NO clutch should be slipped at all when it is that new so that it would not get glazed from the localized heat from slippage. You must have thought that this didn't matter....

It was my fault according to him.
I did NOT state that it was your fault right then and there, so please get your facts straight. What I told you was..He stated that I'd slipped the clutch and he couldn't say how it would do.

Over the next several days it became progressively worse with increasing vibration
I'm sure it would after having been possibly overheated like it was by slipping it up a hill with a cam that loped as hard as your's did....

He said I should bring it in - he would not pick it up.
First of all you didn't ask and second, we don't have a trailer to get it anyway.

I had to leave it in the DynoTech lot as Phil was busy and wouldn't meet us to receive the Vette.
I did not say I WOULDN'T meet you in the lot, I said I COULDN'T because I was out of town when you called about when the car was being dropped off. When I returned back into town that night, I immediately put it inside for you so it wouldn't set outside any longer. It did NOT set outside overnight!

At this point I was flabbergasted that Phil had no interest in trying to determine the cause of the failure!
You've GOT to be kidding.... When have you EVER known me not to be helpful to you?? I think you know better than that Joel! Nice try.....

I was dumbfounded that a Forum Vendor would proceed in this manner.
Again, see the above response..... Geezzz..

The following day he replied that he/ Dynotech Engineering and Exedy had decided to split the costs out of generosity to the customer. However, I would be charged $324!!
I told you that Exedy was willing to replace the clutch even though they didn't have too and that DTE would normally charge $649 for the clutch install, but we would be willing to meet you half way and assume half the charge, as this issue was NOT caused by improper installation.

I explained that my main concern was that no problem had been identified. Phil Rickard had stated that the 2nd install would be exactly as the 1st - as they had done nothing wrong.
No problem was found because there was no problem with the install in the first place... The second part of your text here is also correct.

How would we prevent this from happening again?
Don't slip the clutch when it's new....

That a $2100 clutch should not be installed without replacing certain items.
That is correct, that is why we replaced the pilot and release bearing while we were in there just for good measure...

At this point I was completely fed up with DynoTech Eng. and did not discuss my car further with them until it was completed.
Why did you refuse to have contact with us any longer when we were trying to help you? Insn't that counter-productive to stop communicating with your tuner???

So I call Tom at Caroline Clutch! He explained that when they are not broken in before dynoing it will glaze them and cause chattering. He said he warned all of his dealers of this. Then I explained my situation with DynoTech.
No you didn't!! You JUST stated above that you did not contact us any further until the car was completed.... Which one is it Joel??????

On June 29 I recieved an email from Phil Rickard stating that they had a replacement clutch and they would work my car into their schedule.
Which we did, TWO DAYS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE so you could get your car back sooner......

Phil basically said sue me ...I'll throw a cover over your car.
Geezzz, I've seen it all now! I NEVER put it that way and the emails you posted of our response to you indicate that... Stick to the facts, not your opinions... Also, I said we would cover it up so that it would NOT get dirty from shop dust, etc in an effort to protect YOUR car.....

Mine was dynoed after the install too!
Joel, it takes heat to damage a new clutch and heat is generated in a clutch assy. by slippage. When a car is on a chassis dyno, there is NO slippage and the pull is a controlled, linear acceleration from a rolling start of 60 MPH... There was NO slippage here, hence no damage.

THEY DIDN'T GREASE THE INPUT SHAFT!!! A twin disk setup needs to have a greased shaft so that the floater and disks can easily slide.
Incorrect... If one greases that shaft, clutch dust will accumulate on the grease and cause clutch plate binding/sticking AND any excess grease will sling off the shaft and onto the clutch making it slip when under power, that is why no grease was used on the shaft. It's really quite simple....

Tom said he told Phil Rickard that when he showed the ictures to him!!! In fact Tom said he thought about contacting me but he didn't know how to as he didn't know I was on CorvetteForum!
That is a completely false statement Joel......

So the bottom line - Phil Rickard knew all along two things he did WRONG to my Car and ONE THAT CAUSED THE CLUTCH FAILURE!!
You are grossly incorrect here Joel and our positive reputation on this board proves you otherwise....

I paid the $324 and picked up my car. The clutch has performed flawlessly - I love it. The first clutch grabbed and chattered from the start. This clutch is smoooth!
As we told you earlier, we did nothing different with the second install than what we had done with the first, other than give you ANOTHER new pilot AND release bearing for FREE- AGAIN as another gesture of customer service, even though the new parts we had installed just a few hundred miles earlier were fine. The clutch will always last longer when it is not slipped excessivly from when it new until broken-in from the start and since the second one wasn't abused like the first one was, it's performance has been flawless to date as you state.

It's not about the $324 - it's about right and wrong and business ethics. Integrity.
Our positive customer support and integrity has well been established in this community and on this board and I'm sure you are well aware of it...


****Here is my last response to you back then in case you don't remember*****
"Joel,
Sometimes it becomes clearly obvious to a company that no matter what is done for a customer to try to give them good customer service and the willingness to bend over backwards for them multiple times, that there is just NOTHING that can be done to make them happy... In this case, this is referring to you. I am going to present you with the ACCURATE FACTS once again, as it seems like you consistently choose to forget them (or ignore them for whatever reason) to try and validate your claim and refusal to pay a bill that is NOT unfounded or fraudulent.

FACT 1: Shortly after this issue started, I clearly stated to you multiple times in emails, the protocol on what we were going to do and how we would handle the various types of scenarios depending on what we found upon disassembly. You took immediate defense of our common standard policy that EVERYONE else abides by and chose to ignore it for whatever reason, even though we hadn't even seen the car to make an evaluation.

FACT 2:You stated I had an attitude...I had none, just stating our policy in a very professional manner.

FACT 3: You stated that we were refusing to take responsibility...we did not make that claim upon initial emails of the issue, but you assumed that was the case and convinced yourself otherwise.

FACT 4: After disassembly, I sent you, Exedy and Carolina Clutch pictures of the burnt clutch from the car and explained very clearly on how it could of occurred and you immediately you stated that it was our/Exedy's fault for the clutch failure...even though you admitted to slipping the clutch to park the car on an incline prior to the disassembly.

FACT 5: What you don't know is that I went to bat for you with Exedy to try and get something done that very day we took it apart and then sent you an email explaining that Exedy AND DTE were willing to help you. Instead, you went behind my back and spoke to Bruce that very day and bad mouthed me and my company to him before you even read the email and then had the audacity not to even acknowledge with any type of contact what we were going to do for you to try and help you nor a common thank you or anything. In fact, after I stated to you in my emails that I sent everyone involved copies of our emails conversations, you immediately refrained in communicating any more other than just one or two sentence emails since you knew that they
would see everything you said. Instead you still remained defiant and
demanding despite what we had done for you with Exedy and what DTE was offering you as a fair break.

FACT 6: When we found out that Exedy was going to replace the clutch at no charge to you, DTE also offered to split the installation labor with you as a gesture of customer satisfaction, even though we had no obligation to do anything due to the severe clutch abuse that was found upon disassembly. You were informed of the protocol multiple times before we even got to this point, but you chose to ignore them and do what "you want" regardless of standard policy that was made VERY CLEAR to you.

FACT 7: As I told you in a past email last Friday 7-2-04, we were not even going to put your car into our schedule to get at the car to install the replacement clutch until Thursday 7-8-04, but we had a break in the shop, so we got right at your car EARLY so YOU could have it sooner. The car was completed two days ahead of schedule and you were informed of its early completion promptly. An email was sent to you informing you of this and you NEVER responded... This was not enough for you either.....

FACT 8: We installed ANOTHER new pilot bearing AND release bearing AGAIN just for good measure, even though we didn't have to, just to make sure everything was right for YOU. We didn't charge you for this either, even though we had the right to...

FACT 9: Now, after all that we have done for you in getting this taken
care of in the quickest, cleanest manner possible, you still remain defiant and refuse to pay a bill that is more than a generous gesture of good customer service towards you and you STILL are demanding of even MORE.....

FACT 10: Exedy has NEVER had a clutch failure of this type by ANYONE after a few hundred of them sold and now you step up and say that the clutch "just failed"???? The issue becomes VERY clear here on where the problem lies... Not the clutch, not the installer, but the driver..... The statistics are NOT in your favor here Joel and it is very suspicious that YOU are the ONLY one having problems with these clutches........

The bottom line is this Joel, DTE has gone above and beyond what we had to do to take care of this in the simplest, cleanest fashion possible and have extended you every possible gesture of customer satisfaction, but it still is not enough... We even stayed late (9pm) just for you when you picked it up the first time, even though you stated that you would be there by 9pm, but got there 1/2 hour late..... We didn't say anything, but stayed until you arrived to help YOU!!!!!

We made everything clear to you up front before we began on how we would handle the matter depending on what we found on disassembly so that you were perfectly clear on the matter. We went to Exedy for YOU to try and help the situation and get something done, even though you bad mouthed DTE repeatedly during the whole time we were working for YOU. We installed new components AGAIN just to insure everything was right for YOU at NO CHARGE to YOU.

We offered to split the installation labor, even though we had no obligation to and you REFUSED to meet us halfway. YOU burned the clutch up Joel, we didn't and we will not take responsibility for your negligence in not breaking it in properly and slipping it excessively. That clutch left here in smooth working order and was operating as designed and it wasn't until you abused it by slipping it excessively that all the problems stated to arise. DTE and myself have extended a helping hand to you multiple times over the last few weeks, only to have you bite it and demand more and make false, inaccurate claims against DTE time and time again."


The bottom line here Joel is that DTE went about this issue in a very professional manner and the emails you decided to publically post here without our permission clearly indicates that. We tried to help you in more ways than you wish to recognize in an effort to provide you with good customer service, but it was never enough for you no matter what we did to help YOU.....

Our positive customer service has been the same way from the day we opened and it will remain that way now, despite what you try to portray here and our solid customer base to date can testify to that.

We're glad you like the rollcage and HD differential we installed for you back then as well and we hope you had a good Thanksgiving as we did Happy Holidays to you in the future as well, have a nice day and good luck with next years's race!

Best Regards,
Phil- DTE

99cobra1

So you are saying that either parking the car on a hill or accelerating up a hill burnt up his $1800+ clutch? That sounds like The clutch can withstand a 5000 RPM launch but cannot withstand that?

gojo

So, If you live in a hilly area don't get this clutch, but it's okay to dyno.

Z06GMAN

Boy alot of he said....she said. I have no idea whats-what here but I do know I was told by more that one tuner and other folks (about 5) to NOT dyno on that clutch before it was broken in. and that there had been some issues of people doing it and trashing the clutch. I don't know why they would say that if it was not true I was also told not to slip it as well.

Red C5

I thought the Exedy was the ULTIMATE clutch. I thought I also read that the clutch is so great that it doesn't even need break in?

towercontroller

DTE has been good to me after I had broke the spider gears out of my new 410 diff. This month I got the new diff and went out to the 1/8 mi track after the 500 mile break in. On a launch the car started to wheel hop bad a "loud" bang occured and the car wouldnt move. 21MC in dallas sent the gears back to DTE. Eventhough I caused them to break, DTE fixed them anyway FREE and EXPRESS SHIPPED the diff back to 21MC.

Dan_the_C5_Man

Jesus H Christ!! Phil should get a G.D. award for all of the B.S. he has been exposed to lately..

Phil does the best he can w/ the parts available, period!

Yeah, it makes sense that new clutches have to be broken in just like new brake pads.. Why is this concept so hard to understand!?! And dyno pulls don't have anything to do with slipping clutches. You don't slip the clutch on a dyno run, for Christ's sake!

Phil, I for one feel sorry for you.. I can only hope that you a: don't raise you prices to the masses to cover folks constantly trying to get something for nothing, and b: know that the majority see through the B.S. and have some common sense! Good luck!

van1

Bink

Guys read Part A, please.

The point is: Phil Rickard knew, from the beginning, what the cause of failure was -> improper installation. Read Part A - the 1st hint of a problem was a hanging clutch that failed to dosengage completely. This was due to an improper install. Phil Rickard knew this from day one - from the moment Tom at Carolina Clutch told him so ( Exedy ate a clutch because of DynoTech's mechanical inabilities).

Lack of honesty - period.