Tom400CFI

On paper, that couldn't be more true. Fortunately, as we mature, we realize that sometimes, there are other important things in life than raw data.

To wit, here is another reality:
C6 on the street = boring.

MavsAK

I don't like how you can't even really hear a stock C6 running unless it has bimodal exhaust, in the loud mode.

And when you do hear it running in quiet mode it sounds...kinda awful. Like a 4 banger almost.

I think most of the boringness comes from how annoyingly quiet the later gens are, without help. Stock at least you can hear some rumble out of the C4s, and definitely with the C3s. Even the most lame underpowered C3s sound better stock anyway in my experience than the C6s with the stealth mufflers on.

Tom400CFI

I completely

In fact, I agree so much so, I custom fabricated, myself, three different kinds of exhausts for mine, in search of better character and quality of exhaust sound. In total, I had (IIRC) 5 different exhausts on that car; stock, Corsas, GHL, and the 3 systems I built. Never found a decent solution.

Post w/results of that effort,

HERE

AND HERE

It was a lost cause! Went fast though.

.

MavsAK

I think it has a great deal to do with how the pipes are plumbed. They cancel out the wrong sounds, with the bends in the pipes, plus the odd ball shape of the mufflers. (who would have thunk, coffee cans sound like *** right? )

LS-1 Camaros sound great, for example.

I also think the tailpipes dumping out in the middle looks completely stupid.
I bet a C6 with sidepipes will fix that sound problem, as well as the looks problem in the *** department.


Yeah I call that an improvement. Sounds like a real car now. Well I know the first thing that'd happen to a C6 that I buy now. Unfortunately though it's not as cool as C3 sidepipes, which have the tubes leading to the collector visible... so I'd have to put a cover over them. Cause just a pipe looks kinda dumb too.

Lloyd Smale

what he said. I could sit and try to justify my c4 which is a good car or just say I drive it and like it but if I could afford a c5z it would be in the yard tomorrow morning

Tom400CFI

KIND OF... On PAPER, the C5 is better (as I said above).
*More power
*More torque
*Better fuel economy
*Smoother powertrain
*longer travel suspension (better ride quality)
*4x stiffer structure in torsion (better ride quality perception)
*Bigger/better brakes
*More passenger and cargo space


...there are more, but those are the indisputable, big items. With that list, it makes it hard for a guy to say that in some ways, the C5^ is NOT better, and be taken seriously. But I'll say that, and I can say WHY. When you get guys like Lloyd Smale saying "if I could afford a c5z it would be in the yard"...that makes the case for a C4 even harder to make.

I HAD a C6. Ordered it for ME, brand new from Kerbeck, picked it up from Mike Hale here in Park City UT...drove it out of their showroom...it was one of the proudest moments of my life. I owned that car for 3-1/2 years and that whole time, I struggled with it. It wasn't fun. It didn't feel fast (unless you were at the track). I didn't feel like *I* was driving it (felt like a robot). It was loaded with incredibly irritating features that were undefeatable. ON PAPER, the car was killer and at the track it was a monster....so how could I NOT love the thing? Something must have been "wrong" with me...so I persisted w/the car, trying to convince myself that I should love it.


After 3 years, I bought a '92 as a "repairable", to fix and make some money. I fixed it, and the first time I drove it, I was IN LOVE. The C4 was the Corvette that I really wanted! It drove like a car ought to drive. Took me about 2 minutes to realize that, too. I didn't even leave my neighborhood, and I thought, "Now THIS is an awesome car!". My friends thought I was nuts. My wife thought I was nuts. I even wondered if I was nuts, and what my problem was. I kept the C6 for 6 more months, still trying to like the thing, and finally, I realized it wasn't going to happen. The car was no fun, it was pretty annoying to live with, overall, and I just didn't like it. Sold it, and I don't miss it.

So I'm not "rationalizing" here. I'm about as honest an opinion as you can get. I had no "emotional connection" to the '92 at all...but loved it instantly. I did what I could to try to love the C6, and it wan't happening. I could afford the C6...I DID afford the C6...so money wasn't a factor there.

"The C5^ is a better car, period". Yes, on paper it certainly is indisputably better. The objective data proves that and you cannot debate it in that realm. However the C4 absolutely provides a very different experience that the C5^ simply cannot provide (period), and there is merit to the car for being able to provide that experience, and legitimacy in one's love of that experience. I'm not going to say that the "C4 is better and if you don't agree, your an idiot"....b/c I know that's not true at all. But it does irritate me when people post w/that tone/attitude about the C5^. It's a red herring argument, and not necessarily true. On paper C5^ is better. On paper. But there is an experience element too, that to ME is a lot more important than metrics.

I've had both...and at the same time. I sold one, and still have the one that was better...why would I do that if the C5^ "plain and simple, it's the better car" ? Maybe I'm Kooky. Maybe my friends were right that I'm nuts...but I still have my C4, I drive the hell out of it, and love the car. They've all sold their cars...or don't ever drive them. So who's right? Both. They're both fantastic cars, for totally different reasons.

.

MavsAK

You aren't the only one. Before I bought my C4, I had the opportunity to drive a C5, and a C6 for about a week each. At the time I had a Gen 4 F body (which I still miss that car. I wish that the newspaper guy that rammed it that his mother had swallowed that night), and my ZX-14.

I've always loved Corvettes, and Firebirds growing up.
So of course I'm going to take the opportunity. I thought the C5 was actually a little more fun. Even if it felt kinda numb compared to my Firebird. (especially since I had replaced all the rubber bushings in the bird, and upgraded the coil springs, and swaybars.) The C6, the first thing that was wrong with it, was the horrendous sound coming out of it's ***. A v8 is not meant to sound like a 4 banger, and yet there it is, in civilized driving conditions sounding like my buddy's old cavalier.

I was actually kind of turned off from Corvettes, other than memories of winning a ton of local Gran Turismo tournaments in them.

After the Firebird got wrecked by the newspaper guy who rammed it at 40. (Shockingly the bird, held up well. I shoulda just bought it back) I immediately started looking for another Gen 4 F body...and much to my dismay I couldn't find one locally. Corvettes were on my radar, simply because there were a few in my price range. Having already driven a C6 and C5, I went looking for C4s.

Which is the generation that my generation grew up with. For us 25 to 30 year olds, C4, is the one we grew up seeing, grew up riding around in, or driving in videogames. The C5 was our highschool years Corvette. Which I still loved dearly in design aesthetics. I went to see three different C4s before coming to the VERY last one on my list of cars to buy. I didn't even bother driving the other ones, because they each had something majorly wrong with them, and or were marked up over double their real world worth, and or both. (like the Red 93 with active ride control...which was broken for 10,000 yeah right )

The 89, I drove and immediately knew I was leaving with it. It was just a matter of how much I was going to be paying for it. I kept my poker face on the entire drive..which was damned hard given how much fun I was allowed to be having with it so I could get myself some wiggle room.

It was raw, visceral, and throaty. Even with the 100 less ponies than the C5, to say nothing of the 160 less of the C6, it still felt more alive, and immediate.

Sometimes, older cars really do make the driving experience more enjoyable.
It's why likely, my next vette is going to be either a C3 (most likely), or a second C4 (hopefully a ZR-1).

I will go so far as to say while a C5 ZO6 will likely still kick my car's ***...a 460 horsepower C4, with C6 ZO6 brakes, VBP sport springs, and camber brace, is probably going to be a hell of a lot more fun to drive, than damn near any C5 or 6.

I hear the C7 is a great deal less numb, and I've not had the chance to drive one yet.

sahhas

well, i guess i can chime in on this since i drove my first C5 yesterday (a '99).
i liked the C5, but i also like the C4.
but i think in the end for my needs the C5 will work better.
but i wouldn't say "one is better than the other"
better is subjective.
you can say: the C5 is newer, more technologically advanced, in stock form faster, etc.
but i still wouldn't classify that as "better"
i think the C4 has a charm to it, it does feel like a special car (special can be hard to get in for some!).
and while i will grant that the C5 is probably the fastest stock production car i'll ever sit in (doubt i'll ever ride in a super car or a C6 or C7), i rode in a modified C4 (had a 600 hp engine) that would probably blow most C5s out of the water. the thing took off like the aerosmith ride at disney. it was scary!!!
i think the pt is that both a C5 and a C4 will accelerate pretty quickly to 70 mph to merge on to the Interstate easily!
and honestly, i finally drove some L98 C4s this summer, and those will accelerate to highway speeds pretty nicely, maybe not as fast as a C5, but it will do a decent job.
i think in the end it comes down to what are your needs and wants and budget.
and for me i think the C5 will fill the bill, but that doesn't take anything away from a C4.
in art you can say that "digital art" is more advanced in its use of technology or newer than painting, but one is not better than another. they are just different.
and if you want another thing to chew on: think of the C4 sledgehammer. granted there is only 1 of them, but i think that deep down, there is the potential in all C4s to be a sledgehammer....that is the thought i've had when driving them!

sahhas

ps...
if you want a non-corvette lovers look at it, i will give you my wife's perspective.
she liked the 93 and 96 C4s we drove last summer.
but this spring when we drove a porsche boxter (i think it was an 05).
SHE LOVED THAT CAR (i didn't love it).
that' is all she talked about for awhile....
but yesterday after we drove a C5, she loves the look and feel of a C5 over a porsche boxster....so in that regard i'll give my thanks to the makers/creators of the C5!

shootnstarz

I don't really have enough Corvette experience to do any comparisons but I did drive my first C5 last week. My observations were, it rides smoother, has a little more acceleration but not as much as I expected, was uncomfortable taking hard turns, wanted to throw me out the door and it was much more roomy in the cockpit. Brakes seem to be better too.

I'm still happy with my 89, it's much more fun to drive around town, IMHO corners much better and the center dump tailpipes of the later ones just don't grab me. And best of all I can work on my 89 and not pay somebody to do a half *** job as I've been subjected to lately.

Rick

MavsAK

The C5 and C6 have some of the worst seats I've ever had the misery of driving in for hard driving. They belong in caddies, not corvettes. They're plushy but not supportive in the least.

sahhas

oh, you want to talk SEATS, i did think the C5 seats were NOT VERY GOOD.
they felt very thin to me (granted i was driving a '99 on Sat).

i have felt that all the C4 seats i've driven in were comfy.
and honestly when i drove the '85 last fall, man i thought the seats in that thing felt great, and i was expecting them to be crappy since they were 30 years old!!!!

rocknroller

I liked my '90 coupe a lot, but I love the raw feeling of my c5z. Awesome car for the money.

PLRX

856SPEED

She is definitely the best thing I witnessed in this thread....

I like her better than any C4 or C5....can we all agree on that?

thegame

Try a C7 Stingray its GHASTLY

Tom400CFI

Ha ha ha...right. I've heard the C7 is better. Hard to know what to believe, since the C6 was "the bomb" when it came out, according to popular posting on these forums. Not many are honest enough to spend $50k on a car, then publicly admit that it's not "all that".

But I do know this: I'd love to try a C7 and see for myself.

thegame

I do love my Stingray. In the spring it's going in for an ECS kit with meth. Should make around 620rwhp on low boost and capable 800+ on high boost if you forge stock internals. I'm sure I'll be happy with it on low boost though. I basically wanted to make my own version of the Z06. I have these badges for my car when it's done.

MavsAK

I remember the car rags, complaining about how numb the C6 feels. Words like "spooky"and "numb" were used to describe it's lack of feedback.

Exact opposite with the same rags and the C7. Forum feedback seems so far inline with the mags.

oldpro

the newer cars maybe better but I will take my fully ported 90 zr1 . it runs 11.70s and still gets 25 mpg