Independent header testing-ARH Longtubes/Pfadt Tri Y/Kooks Longtubes- Results Inside
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Independent header testing-ARH Longtubes/Pfadt Tri Y/Kooks Longtubes- Results Inside
For those of you new to the forum or not familiar with Vengeance Racing please take a few minutes to search our name. We have literally hundreds of C5/C6 builds posted on Corvette Forum and we specialize in late model GM performance. We pride ourselves on offering the most powerful & reliable performance packages in the industry. For this to happen we spend countless hours testing not only our own products, but all manufacturer supplied products to ensure the best combination possible for our customer.
Vengeance Racing recently purchased a C7 for development purposes. We have taken a step by step approach modifying our C7 to show individual performance gains. More information on our C7 can be found here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-t...o-updates.html
This thread details our results after testing the following header systems.
American Racing 1 7/8" 4 into 1 longtubes with ORX
Pfadt Race Engineering Tri Y longtubes with ORX
Kooks Custom Headers 1 7/8" 4 into 1 longtubes with ORX
A couple of things before the results:
Coolant Temp- 208-212*
Oil Temp-160-165*
Timing-25*
Air Fuel-12.8
All that being said..... Our initial set of headers that were installed with our VR Cam Kit were the Pfadt Race Engineering Tri Y Design with ORX. Here is a side by side comparison of the Pfadt system Vs the OE manifolds/cats/H pipe
Finish:The Pfadt headers offer an amazing look and include V Band connections as well as a brushed stainless finish. Their system comes packaged extremely well including everything needed for a complete installation.
Fit: Install was a bit more difficult than we anticipated. The passenger side header takes a little work to install including lowering the cradle/removing oil lines and starter cover. We attribute this to the tri y design and consider the header fitment part of the packaging.
We also experienced a bit of difficulty installing our X pipe getting the V bands to line up correctly. Once installed everything seems to fit well, although our X pipe is shifted to the left of the tunnel a bit. We have forwarded this information to Pfadt and they seem very eager to correct these issues as soon as possible. I am sending my system back to them for testing/fitment this week.
Dyno Results: Results from the Pfadt Headers/VR Camshaft are 511RWHP/442RWTQ.
Next up Are the American Racing 1 7/8" Longtubes with ORX.
Finish: Similar to the ARH mid lengths the long tubes look well engineered with extremely long primaries and include everything needed for a complete installation. The only thing lacking was 02 extensions (which the Pfadt system and ARH mid lengths did not require). We extended our current 02 sensors to complete testing.
Fit: Surprisingly the ARH long tubes fell right into place. We literally had to use a ratchet strap on the bottom of the car to hold the headers in the engine bay until we were able to lower the vehicle to bolt the headers to the engine.
Dyno Results: Peak #s from our baseline jumped from 511/442 to 519/458 along with a noticeable increase in torque in the lower RPMs..
Next up are Kooks 1 7/8" 4 into 1 Stainless Longtubes with NON Catted X pipe...
Finish: As with the Pfadt and ARH systems the Kooks headers showed up packaged well and included everything needed for a complete installation. Comparing the ARH 4 into 1 to the Kooks 4 into 1 there are some noticeable differences
Primary length- The ARH primaries measure up to 10" longer than the Kooks system.
The Kooks system located the front 02 provision right at the end of the primary while the ARH system moves it further back in the collector.
The Kooks header offers a straight collector while the ARH header offers a merge collector
Fit: The Kooks headers installed without issue. Like the ARH Headers we had to use a ratchet strap under the vehicle to hold the headers in place while we lowered it down to bolt the headers to the engine. The X pipe fit well although after bolting everything up and adjusting the axle back our tips set out about an inch further than stock.
Dyno Results:
Kooks Vs ARH- Both 1 7/8" Primary/Both 3" ORX
Peak #s were close with Kooks coming in at 516RWHP/449RWTQ and ARH coming in at 519RWHP/458RWTQ. From approximately 2500RPM to 3800RPM the ARH system had up to 50lb ft advantages over the Kooks system
Kooks Vs Pfadt- Kooks 4 into 1/Pfadt Tri Y Design/Both 3" ORX
Again, Peak #s were close with Kooks coming in at 516RWHP/449RWTQ and Pfadts #s coming in at 511RWHP/442RWTQ.... From 3000RPM to approximately 3800RPM the Pfadt system actually has 25 to 30lb ft advantage over the Kooks system, but the Kooks system averages approximately 10rwhp/10rwtq more than the Pfadt system from 4700RPM and up
Here is a three way comparison of the final results of all three systems
Pfadt Race Engineering -511RWHP/442RWTQ
American Racing -519RWHP/458RWTQ
Kooks Custom Headers-516RWHP/449RWTQ
I will state again the results posted are what we saw on our modified C7. Others results may vary.
We will be conducting more testing in the coming weeks to ensure our customers get the best performance possible from their investment. We will continue to post unbiased results of our testing as well.
IF YOU HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION POSTED ABOVE PLEASE DO NOT BOTHER POSTING.
Vengeance Racing recently purchased a C7 for development purposes. We have taken a step by step approach modifying our C7 to show individual performance gains. More information on our C7 can be found here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-t...o-updates.html
This thread details our results after testing the following header systems.
American Racing 1 7/8" 4 into 1 longtubes with ORX
Pfadt Race Engineering Tri Y longtubes with ORX
Kooks Custom Headers 1 7/8" 4 into 1 longtubes with ORX
A couple of things before the results:
- This testing was performed on our modified and tuned C7
- The results are specific to our combination and might not be the same for your application.
- All testing was performed on our Dynojet 224x chassis dyno.
- All three header systems were installed/tested within a 12 hour window to avoid issues with weather corrections.
- Testing conditions were monitored and recorded for each system.
Coolant Temp- 208-212*
Oil Temp-160-165*
Timing-25*
Air Fuel-12.8
- Tuning adjustments were made for each test to achieve the best results from each system.
- Run File #3 is posted from each system for comparison.
- Vengeance Racing is a dealer for American Racing & Pfadt Race Engineering/Pfadt Power Products.
- Vengeance Racing has agreed to sign back on with Kooks IF their headers out perform the competition.
- We have invited LG to send us their headers for testing, with no reply.
All that being said..... Our initial set of headers that were installed with our VR Cam Kit were the Pfadt Race Engineering Tri Y Design with ORX. Here is a side by side comparison of the Pfadt system Vs the OE manifolds/cats/H pipe
Finish:The Pfadt headers offer an amazing look and include V Band connections as well as a brushed stainless finish. Their system comes packaged extremely well including everything needed for a complete installation.
Fit: Install was a bit more difficult than we anticipated. The passenger side header takes a little work to install including lowering the cradle/removing oil lines and starter cover. We attribute this to the tri y design and consider the header fitment part of the packaging.
We also experienced a bit of difficulty installing our X pipe getting the V bands to line up correctly. Once installed everything seems to fit well, although our X pipe is shifted to the left of the tunnel a bit. We have forwarded this information to Pfadt and they seem very eager to correct these issues as soon as possible. I am sending my system back to them for testing/fitment this week.
Dyno Results: Results from the Pfadt Headers/VR Camshaft are 511RWHP/442RWTQ.
Next up Are the American Racing 1 7/8" Longtubes with ORX.
Finish: Similar to the ARH mid lengths the long tubes look well engineered with extremely long primaries and include everything needed for a complete installation. The only thing lacking was 02 extensions (which the Pfadt system and ARH mid lengths did not require). We extended our current 02 sensors to complete testing.
Fit: Surprisingly the ARH long tubes fell right into place. We literally had to use a ratchet strap on the bottom of the car to hold the headers in the engine bay until we were able to lower the vehicle to bolt the headers to the engine.
Dyno Results: Peak #s from our baseline jumped from 511/442 to 519/458 along with a noticeable increase in torque in the lower RPMs..
Next up are Kooks 1 7/8" 4 into 1 Stainless Longtubes with NON Catted X pipe...
Finish: As with the Pfadt and ARH systems the Kooks headers showed up packaged well and included everything needed for a complete installation. Comparing the ARH 4 into 1 to the Kooks 4 into 1 there are some noticeable differences
Primary length- The ARH primaries measure up to 10" longer than the Kooks system.
The Kooks system located the front 02 provision right at the end of the primary while the ARH system moves it further back in the collector.
The Kooks header offers a straight collector while the ARH header offers a merge collector
Fit: The Kooks headers installed without issue. Like the ARH Headers we had to use a ratchet strap under the vehicle to hold the headers in place while we lowered it down to bolt the headers to the engine. The X pipe fit well although after bolting everything up and adjusting the axle back our tips set out about an inch further than stock.
Dyno Results:
Kooks Vs ARH- Both 1 7/8" Primary/Both 3" ORX
Peak #s were close with Kooks coming in at 516RWHP/449RWTQ and ARH coming in at 519RWHP/458RWTQ. From approximately 2500RPM to 3800RPM the ARH system had up to 50lb ft advantages over the Kooks system
Kooks Vs Pfadt- Kooks 4 into 1/Pfadt Tri Y Design/Both 3" ORX
Again, Peak #s were close with Kooks coming in at 516RWHP/449RWTQ and Pfadts #s coming in at 511RWHP/442RWTQ.... From 3000RPM to approximately 3800RPM the Pfadt system actually has 25 to 30lb ft advantage over the Kooks system, but the Kooks system averages approximately 10rwhp/10rwtq more than the Pfadt system from 4700RPM and up
Here is a three way comparison of the final results of all three systems
Pfadt Race Engineering -511RWHP/442RWTQ
American Racing -519RWHP/458RWTQ
Kooks Custom Headers-516RWHP/449RWTQ
I will state again the results posted are what we saw on our modified C7. Others results may vary.
We will be conducting more testing in the coming weeks to ensure our customers get the best performance possible from their investment. We will continue to post unbiased results of our testing as well.
IF YOU HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION POSTED ABOVE PLEASE DO NOT BOTHER POSTING.
The following 3 users liked this post by Ron@Vengeance Racing:
#4
Race Director
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Awesome comparison! ARH FTW!!!
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: North/Central NJ - a.k.a. Gotti in the CFNE section
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St. Jude Donor '05
Ron,
Thank you for your time, dedication, and service to our forum.
Ever hear back from LG? I think they need to get you guys a set.
Thank you for your time, dedication, and service to our forum.
Ever hear back from LG? I think they need to get you guys a set.
#6
Melting Slicks
Nice write up Ron!
Where are the smack talkers now? Looks like our conversation today was right on point.....
One more set we are trying tomorrow and this header topic will be a wrap...
HT
Where are the smack talkers now? Looks like our conversation today was right on point.....
One more set we are trying tomorrow and this header topic will be a wrap...
HT
#7
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Thanks for the " Thank You" guys... I believe we are done with header/exhaust testing... I hope the results above help you make an informed decision when modifying your C7... I am confident other shops will have A/B results in the near future with different combinations. For us, we are going to put our ARH system back on the car and start dialing in our Nitrous Outlet plate kit. Hopefully by the end of the week we will be able to post nitrous #s as well has have results from atleast one set of ported heads we are testing.
#8
Thank you Ron. Do you think the longer primaries are responsible for the big torque increase down low? I am looking forward to your head swap and intake work. Merry Christmas.
#10
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Thank you for taking the time to do this, Ron. Excellent write-up!
Edit: Also a bit sad I went with a catted midpipe, but I guess I feel better about emissions...
Edit: Also a bit sad I went with a catted midpipe, but I guess I feel better about emissions...
Last edited by Theta; 12-16-2013 at 09:16 PM.
#11
Very nice write up and dedication to this community. It would be interesting to see another round of these tests after you pick the best head and cam and all other modifications come to market. Id like to see what happens when its sprayed with a big cam and heads. Thanks again.
#12
Scraping the splitter.
Great info!
Any idea what's going on in this range? The graphs look strange in that the Kooks seem to drop off pretty badly in rwhp/rwtq while the ARH's seem to increase slightly and then they pretty much even out for the remainder of the pulls. Does the primary length make that profound of a difference?
S.
From approximately 2500RPM to 3800RPM the ARH system had up to 50lb ft advantages over the Kooks system
Any idea what's going on in this range? The graphs look strange in that the Kooks seem to drop off pretty badly in rwhp/rwtq while the ARH's seem to increase slightly and then they pretty much even out for the remainder of the pulls. Does the primary length make that profound of a difference?
S.
#14
Racer
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St Jude Donor '14
The kook's torque looks different then mine did. I don't remember seeing a drop like that in the low rpm range. Can't wait to see what these look like once we get some boost going on these cars. Great job guys.
#15
Le Mans Master
The only explanation that makes sense is that the ARH headers and rest of the exhaust have a low pressure wave at the collector in that RPM range helping the exhaust while the others don't. This may have something to do with the position of the x-pipe and/or the flow out to the mufflers (and back!) being of just the right length (and diameter!)
#16
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St Jude Donor '14
I went back and looked at a few graphs that have been posted for the Kook's headers and don't see that dip in the lower rpm range. Course those cars didn't have cam upgrades. Maybe I need to switch when I do the heads, cam, and blower
#17
Melting Slicks
Right on Ron!!! Thanks for your efforts!
I will offer my insight based on my limited but scientifically proven header building results with my motors (most recently 680 RWHP NA LS7)...the merge collectors will offer incredible results down low as evidences by ARH's superior low end torque. Secondly, the placement of the ARH "X" in relation to Kooks & Pfadt.
Any idea what's going on in this range? The graphs look strange in that the Kooks seem to drop off pretty badly in rwhp/rwtq while the ARH's seem to increase slightly and then they pretty much even out for the remainder of the pulls. Does the primary length make that profound of a difference?