As I've said in a couple other threads, there's no perfect subwoofer (there are, however, some very crappy subs). It depends on your design goals. Some people will prefer smaller boxes over slightly better sound. Some people sacrifice all for every last dB to be as loud as possible. These preferences change EVERYTHING
when it comes to choosing the right equipment for your setup. You have to read, read, read (or post details and ask) to learn for yourself what specs you should look for to meet your goals.

A little knowledge can really help spot those drivers with questionable specs. And there are a lot of them out there.

We've already established in other threads that my design goals are not always the same as others (right fej? ).

 

Since you have so much knowledge, wouldn't it be easy for you to provide some advise as to which specs to look for in general, for spl, for sound quality, for real efficiency?

I mean ,whether or not you like high horsepower cars, it's easy to say that if you want a slow car, you want 150hp, and if you want a fast car, you want 400hp. And if you want to tow, you want good low end torque, but if you are road course racing, you want lots of power up top...

 

I've known the guy for nearly 15 years.. no, it's not easy.

Rob is obsessed with getting the best possible result, compromise is not in his nature. If you tell him that you have a box with a certain airspace available and what your goals are for the sound I'm sure he would be more than happy to point you towards the kinds of drivers and specs to keep an eye out for. But to speak in generalities... definitely not his nature.

Trust one thing, he's not saying what he's saying to be a contrarian, he's genuinely trying to provide information. He's just not very good at doing it.

Hi Rob

 

When all is said and done, we do have our personal subwoofer experiences. And in my experience, which I'm sure many will agree, the enclosure and vehicle has the biggest impact on quality.

My idmax sounds very much different sealed in my corvette than it did in my tacoma, for example.

 

It still comes down to compromise. My house sub is a 15" Adire Tempest with dual 3" flared 5" long ports tuned to 18.8hz. It has a 1000w RMS plate amp. I would love to have the performance of this sub in my rides .. but it also has over a 6 cu^3 enclosure which would not even fit in my ext cab silverado let alone the vette.

There are many proven performers in the audio world, some lesser known names that make great drivers, and some very well known names that make some poor performers.

Certain things hold true in car audio, like the correct enclosure for any given sub will outperform a great sub in a poorly designed/suited enclosure.

I have heard $5k sub setups that sound like shyt, I have heard $200 sub setups with a 6" sub sound phenomenal. One of my most classic memories was my buddies Taurus with Cambridge Soundworks home based sub enclosures (basically 2 slave units with 2 6" drivers each) that flat out HAMMERED. Played really low with clean and tight accuracy. People would always ask how many 12's he had or if he had 2 15's ... another example of great enclosure/driver matching.

IMO at some point you need to spend a few dollars on your drivers however, as a $70 sub can, but is not likely to outperform AND outlast a $150 sub. Case in point is all of the old PPI and Soundstream gear that still carries a great reputation and solid quality 10-15 years after it was sold new. Audiobahn (no offense) will never have their gear do the same.

Fej

 

Sure, but what kind of 400 HP are we talking about...? all motors have different characteristics regardless if they have the same HP and TQ ratings. My point is only that you have to educate yourself and dig deeper into specs to decide if a particular 400 HP motor suits your application or not. Then we factor in a little personal preference. Speakers are the same.

Yes, but to gain any worthwhile experience, you have to determine why this is the case. Otherwise, you simply have experience on how a box/driver combination sounds in a given vehicle. If you were to go through every possible combination of box/driver/vehicle, you'd have a hell of a personal database. It makes more sense to look at the driver's specs and determine whether it fits the application at hand, since the driver is that thing you have most control over. The vehicle is determined... the box size easily follows, then you're simply left to find the driver that performs well given these circumstances.

Back to the point of this thread... the Focal is an excellent choice for certain applications. It can't be dismissed out-of-hand for a spec that many people can't grasp. Since we have yet to hear what his actual design goals are, that's all that can be said.

And for maybe the first time, I completely agree with fej.

 

WOOT! Spkr can I put that in my sig?

Fej

 

lol

I have different subs in the four vehicles I own.
The 1991 Jimmy SLE 4X4 has two JL Audio 18W6s with each getting 900watts rms It is the loudest of the vehicles I own. I'm not lying when I say the subs cracked my windshield and has knocked off my radar detector.
The 2002 Vette has three Infinity Perfect 12.1Ds, again loud but more controled bass.
The 92 Eagle Talon TsiAWD has both two ID 8"s up front and four ID 10"s in the hatch. In SQ competion the 8"s are used but for SPL the four 10"s are used and have hit 147 dbs .
The 1991 Eagle Talon TsiAWD had four JL Audio 15W5s (they were stolen ) in a iso configuration, they were awesome too.

IMO, Focal makes excellent speakers. I use a set of Focal componet speakers in the 92 which has won MANY awards......but the Focals were nearly $1,000
The JL Audio 12W7 is one of the best subs out there. But, it too is big $. So, I agree with the others, the ID would probably be a good sub for you.
Jay

 

your subs were over the 170+db it would take to crack a windshield? holy ****! thats impressive! Did you do the concrete deadening job like the other cars in that decibel class?

 

Ok guys Focal out TC in... I think.. Check this one out.



Key Features

• 160 Newtons2/watt Motor Force
• 1000 Watts Continuous Power
• 3" Anodized Aluminum Voice Coil
• Single Dish Titanium Cone
• High Excursion Tall NBR Surround
• 215 Ounce Magnet Structure
• Anti Flux Modulation Shorting Ring
• 30mm XMax
• 10" Diameter Suspension System
• Custom Cast Aluminum Frame
• Quick-Detach Top Assembly

Driver Cutout Diameter Basket Diameter Gasket Height Mounting Depth Displacement Weight
12TC-3000 11.25" 12.65" 0.65" 9.75" 0.12ft3http://www.tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm


Using this Amp to Drive it.



Features:

o Brutus BXi 2006D
o 1-Channel Mono-Block Operation
o SUPER D-Class Ampllifier Topography
o Ultra-Fi MOSFET Outputs
o Illuminated Hifonics Logo
o PWM MOSFET EXVP (Exponential Vari-Power Supply)
o SPC Twin Turbo-Torroids with Simpatico Coil Design
o Remote Bass Control
o Balanced Line Inputs w/ Optional Hifonics MM-BLD-1
o Gold RCA Line Ouputs - Permit Amplifier Daisy-Chaining
o 4-Gauge Power Connectors
* Fully Adjustable Accu Cross Crossovers Inlude:
o -24dB Subsonic Filter (Adjusts 15-50Hz)
o Phase Shift Adjustments (0 to +180 Degrees)
o 24dB Low-Pass Crossover (Adjusts 35 - 250 Hz)
o Bass Boost: Variable Bass Equalization (+18dB @ 45Hz)

* SPECIFICATIONS:
o 650Wx1 RMS @ 4 ohm
o 1300Wx1 RMS @ 2 ohm
o 2000Wx1 RMS @ 1 ohm
o S/N Ratio: >95dB
o THD & Noise: <0.08
o Input Impedance (Balanced/Un-Balanced): 20k ohm / 47k ohm


Front Door Speakers





FOCAL POLYGLASS 165V3E
6 1/2" THREE WAY COMPONENT SYSTEM
3 Way Separate System
165mm Woofer
25mm Voice Coil
84mm Magnet
100mm Mid-Range
25mm Voice Coil
Neodymium Magnet
TN 47 Tioxid Tweeter
3 Way Separate Crossover
12 dB/oct. (3.5kHz)
Adjustable Tweeter Level
160 Watts Max Power Handling
80 Watts Nominal Power Handling
93dB Sensitivity (2.83 V/1m)
55Hz-20kHz Frequency Response
Grills Included


front door amp




* RMS Power Range : 250-500 Watts
* Number Of Channels: 2
* Maximum Power: 1000 Watts
* Built In Crossovers: Yes
* Channel Separation: Yes

Features

* RMS @ 4-Ohms: 2 x 250-Watts
* RMS @ 2-Ohms: 2 x 500-Watts
* RMS @ 4-Ohms: 1 x 1000-Watts
* Crossover And Switching:
o Variable 12dB Octave Hi-Pass
o Variable 24dB Octave Low-Pass
o ±18dB Bass Boost at 45Hz
* Inputs and Diagnostics:
o Variable Input Level Control
o Power and Diagnostics LEDs
o DC Short Circuit Protection
o Over-Load Protection
* Connector Types:
o Unbalanced Inputs (RCA’s)
o Full-Range Line Outputs (RCA’s)
o Molded 4-Gauge Power Inputs
o Molded 10-Gauge Speaker Outputs




Sub almost 10 inches deep.. I going half to do some type of custom sub
box.

All this Audio has nothing but got high praises from all around the internet. I know it can be but that's life.

Guys and Girls, Tell me if I'm getting way off base here. Don't hold back,I
can take it...


Also Thanks for All the super good info in this Thread.... I'm sure alot more people will get alot of good info from it...

 

Looks good. You'll have a nice sounding system capable of shaking the hell out of the car next to you.

 

Wow, Did not think it would be that bad A$$.. Cool...

This will prob. be the last system I will do, I'm getting little old for all the

bump in the Trunk thing.. So going out with a BANG..

To Forum Gurus............ THANKS

 

Focal is known to be a higher end brand but based on the price I'd say thats a entry or middle level sub for them?

I personally love Diamond Audio.

 

Subw00er, Rrrr (*&*)#_@$^&, Now you did it. I was fixed. Now got to

go Diamond hunting... LOL...

 

this is the one i went with as a sound quality sub:
http://www.tcsounds.com/tc9.htm

check out this:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...1&postcount=14
from this thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ead.php?t=8694

the member that i linked to is a very well respected member on that site that does a ton of testing and evaluations.

 

Heh sub and I are opposites. The only Diamond components I was ever impressed with were the d9's they had out recently, but were $$$. I really like the Focal polykevlar line, that 'glass line is not bad, however if you are not a fan of lots of highs .. you may end up looking elsewhere for a tweet as the tn47 is a little bright, and not very good off-axis. But solid performing tweets can be swapped into that set for $55.

TC sounds makes some great subs .. I have one of their 12's sitting in my room waiting for a home right now ... could not pass up the price heh. 10" deep is going to take some sort of volcano or other custom mount as my 5.75" deep 12" sub barely fits in a stealth style flat top box.

G'luck on your auditioning, there are lots of great sets out there, but YOU have to like how it sounds. Make sure you listen to component sets with similar power ratings to what you will be giving them, and without outside subs or processing so you can get a true feel for what they will sound like in your car. Also be sure to bring music that YOU know well and know what it should sound like.

Fej

 

Fej, I was referring to their subs, not components, but anyway, I guess this is one of the reasons why its so hard to suggest equipment in car audio.. everyone hears differently. I've purchased many subs since I started in car audio and I always was looked for a sub that could hit really low while still being able to stay semi-accurate and blend well with the components. Its kind of a tough thing to find. For me, I stopped looking when I found the Diamond Audio 12" because it did everything I needed it to. There may be better subs out there, but I'm finally really happy with what I have.

It should also be mentioned that the placement and quality of the enclosure has a lot to do with the reproduction of bass notes. For example a larger box may hit lower, but be sloppy, and a smaller box may be better suited to quick notes, but has a hard time hitting low.

To solve some of this, I tend to over-power my speakers. My sub has a 1000.1 JL audio on it (1000watts rms), for example. I place it in a mid sized box that is a sacrifice between the two extremes and with the added power it helps me hit the low stuff while maintaining accuracy.

The sub I had before the Diamond was a MBquart. I'm really not a fan of Quart's components but their high end subwoofer is really good. It was less power hungry than the Diamond Audio, but not as good.

Have fun with it and buy what sounds good to YOU, not us! The hobby of car audio is in the search for what sounds good to you. I think what you realize when you get better and better equipment is that its just too painful and expensive to get better after a certain point. Eventually you learn that 90% of perfect is just fine. That last 10% =

 

I think what you realize when you get better and better

equipment is that its just too painful and expensive to get better after a

certain point. Eventually you learn that 90% of perfect is just fine. That

last 10%



Hit the nail on the head, you are so right..

 

Great Post. Thanks




.

 

I should point out that the box to go into the centre compartment is about 8" deep but will only take a sub about 6" deep due to the shape. That TC Sounds sub is too deep to fit there.

Peter