C4 Radio setup advice
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
C4 Radio setup advice
I recently bought a C4 and I'm kind of disappointed in the sound.
No bass kick and it sounds "tinny". I did install the equalizer and that helped a lot.
I know an entire system overhaul would help but I'd like to avoid that.
Here's my setup:
-Bose HU
-Soundstream Amp (60Wrms @ 4ohm, 10Hz-30kHz response, >97db SN, >0.02% THD)
-10-band Equalizer
-Coaxial to conventional 2-wire converters
-Rear: Nakamichi 6x9
-Front: MBQuart 5.25 w/ tweeter (passive xover)
Any advice on what is the weak link here??
Are these of concern?
1. No enclosed speaker mounts (am I losing sound here?)
-front is screwed to carpet panel
-not sure on rear speakers
2. Coaxial to conventional speaker converter (lose quality here?)
I'd like to keep the Bose HU (stock looking and to save$$).
Please advise.....
Thanks,
No bass kick and it sounds "tinny". I did install the equalizer and that helped a lot.
I know an entire system overhaul would help but I'd like to avoid that.
Here's my setup:
-Bose HU
-Soundstream Amp (60Wrms @ 4ohm, 10Hz-30kHz response, >97db SN, >0.02% THD)
-10-band Equalizer
-Coaxial to conventional 2-wire converters
-Rear: Nakamichi 6x9
-Front: MBQuart 5.25 w/ tweeter (passive xover)
Any advice on what is the weak link here??
Are these of concern?
1. No enclosed speaker mounts (am I losing sound here?)
-front is screwed to carpet panel
-not sure on rear speakers
2. Coaxial to conventional speaker converter (lose quality here?)
I'd like to keep the Bose HU (stock looking and to save$$).
Please advise.....
Thanks,
Last edited by nogoodsam; Aug 23, 2007 at 12:59 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
If it sounds bad, then the weak link is the speakers and their install.
6x9s should give some decent bass up, as they are equivelant to an 8" speaker. Crossover too high maybe.
what /brand/ are the speakers?
6x9s should give some decent bass up, as they are equivelant to an 8" speaker. Crossover too high maybe.
what /brand/ are the speakers?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
Well, I'm about value.
I do need the greatest but I do NOT want crap.
I was thinking about $150 for spreakers ($300 total for front & rear).
What about those coaxial converters, do they hurt performance?
thanks for the help man....
I do need the greatest but I do NOT want crap.
I was thinking about $150 for spreakers ($300 total for front & rear).
What about those coaxial converters, do they hurt performance?
thanks for the help man....
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
I'm confused, coaxial converter? Do you mean a crossover? Where the amp goes into it, and it splits between tweet and woofer?
What year is your car? I assume you want a soft warm sound, by how you describe the issues.
What year is your car? I assume you want a soft warm sound, by how you describe the issues.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
I was referring to the RCA line converters. But I think I answered my own question there.
Yes, the crossover is as you described. Amp input and two wires out for tweeter and mid. It a passive crossover. I think you are probably correct in that these are part of the issue.
I don't know if I'd described it as wanting a soft warm sound.
I can't stand the tin sound. The bass in this system is not a kick/deep bass but rather a resonance bass, if that makes sense.
For reference, the two artists I listen to most are Tupac and Linkin Park. (yea, don't hurt me)
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Corvettes ring BAD at ~160hz. Your best bet there is to wire one side out of phase and cause cancellation,
OR, filter out 160hz entirely with your Equalizer.
wiring one side out of phase (backwards) might help with the tweeter issue too. Try shutting off just rear speakers, and just front speakers too, see if we can find out which ones sound tinny and harsh, and which ones are causing the ringing. Though its the 6x9s I'm sure that are giving you the nasty bass.
OR, filter out 160hz entirely with your Equalizer.
wiring one side out of phase (backwards) might help with the tweeter issue too. Try shutting off just rear speakers, and just front speakers too, see if we can find out which ones sound tinny and harsh, and which ones are causing the ringing. Though its the 6x9s I'm sure that are giving you the nasty bass.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
Awesome! (right on)
That description is actually what I've been finding. When I bought the EQ it helped a lot with the 160Hz ring you described. Still have some but I'll give the out-of-phase method a try.
I'll bet you are right, the fronts are giving the tin sound and the backs are giving the "nasty" bass. I have tried different 6x9" in the rear and but got similar sound.
New Plan:
Fronts - new 5.25" 3-ways. Using the EQ adjust the fronts to kill 160Hz.
Back - new 8" subs in stock location. Using the AMP LPF adjust the subs to get good bass (50Hz-150Hz adjustable).
Is it that simple?
That description is actually what I've been finding. When I bought the EQ it helped a lot with the 160Hz ring you described. Still have some but I'll give the out-of-phase method a try.
I'll bet you are right, the fronts are giving the tin sound and the backs are giving the "nasty" bass. I have tried different 6x9" in the rear and but got similar sound.
New Plan:
Fronts - new 5.25" 3-ways. Using the EQ adjust the fronts to kill 160Hz.
Back - new 8" subs in stock location. Using the AMP LPF adjust the subs to get good bass (50Hz-150Hz adjustable).
Is it that simple?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
Or lets me ask this striaght out:
Knowing my issues, for a 1996 C4 what speaker setup would you recommond??
(6x9 rear or subs? 5.25 front? etc..)
Knowing my issues, for a 1996 C4 what speaker setup would you recommond??
(6x9 rear or subs? 5.25 front? etc..)
Last edited by nogoodsam; Aug 23, 2007 at 03:15 PM.
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
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From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
You gents are assuming this factory HU has a reasonably flat response, and in my experience, this is not the case. The front speaker locations are worthless, and a total re-design is necessary for anything worth listening to.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
True, its not ideal. It does seem like my MBQuarts are crappy though.
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
It's not just the fact that they're MBQs. The front factory locations are so absolutely horrible, that nothing (no matter how good or expensive) will sound good in those spaces. I spent 14 years fighting with it. Trust me on this one.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
Can I ask what setup you have?
(since u also have a C4)
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
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From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
I've had two C4s, and countless systems in both. They were far and away the hardest cars I've ever worked to get good sound in. The final system in my '92 was:
HU: Alpine 1310/5957S
EQ: Alesis MEQ-230
XO: PPI FRX-322
Amp: Rockford Fosgate Power 650
Fronts: Vifa custom components, custom crossovers, custom mounts
Rears: same as fronts, different crossovers
Sub: Audio Concepts C-12
HU: Alpine 1310/5957S
EQ: Alesis MEQ-230
XO: PPI FRX-322
Amp: Rockford Fosgate Power 650
Fronts: Vifa custom components, custom crossovers, custom mounts
Rears: same as fronts, different crossovers
Sub: Audio Concepts C-12
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA
Nice, looks like you played quite a bit with this setup.
Can you describe what the front/rear means?
what size components?
what were the mounts (relocation I assume)?
what size components?
what were the mounts (relocation I assume)?
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
Front/Rear means front and rear speakers. In this case, they were raw drivers with custom crossovers I designed and built myself. I managed to get the tweeters (1") in the dash and the woofers (7") in the doors after some modifications. I don't have very many pictures.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 9
From: VA
Have you measured the freq response of the stock CDMs with an o-scope? I have. The Bose CDM has dead flat response. The non-Bose has the typical smiley-face curve. Neither is out of the ordinary.
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
Unfortunately (or fortunately, it really doesn't matter, I suppose), mine were the POS non-Bose as opposed to the POS Bose variety. 
And yes, they were measured.
And yes, they were measured.
Last edited by Spkrboy; Aug 23, 2007 at 05:23 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 9
From: VA
You can get plenty good sound out of the stock HU, _if_ it's working correctly. Since you don't like the bass one thing to consider is that you can go larger than what you have in there now. You can go 6.5" in the front stock locations and an 8" sub in the rear stock locations.