D.E. Fatality at Watkins Glen
08-01-2005, 01:02 PM
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D.E. Fatality at Watkins Glen
A buddy of mine frequents the Audi and PCA boards and found this today. I thought I'd paste the text here for a reality check. There are no assumptions and no blame in any of this, just a reality check on safety concerns...
A member of our local Porsche Club was killed while driving during an event held at Watkins Glen International raceway this past weekend.
While the details of the crash are still under investigation, reports gathered during our instructor meeting at the track indicate that the driver lost control under braking in the "laces of the boot" area of the track.
The crash was a single car incident. It was head-on into the tire barrier at the bottom of this downhill turn. Reports confirm that the driver's helmet was partially removed from his head after the crash, but remained intact.
The driver was in our green run group, which is our beginner run group. Speeds in this turn are around 70-80mph for beginning drivers.
I am making this post because the hobby of attending Driver Education events at racetracks has grown tremendously over the last decade, and I know a lot of forum members here participate in them.
For those people who may not be familiar with Driver Education events, they are organization run lapping days at racetracks. You bring your own car and run at speed with other cars on the racetrack. Passing is limited to straight-aways and only with a permission signal from the driver being passed. They are not competitions, and therefore do not really qualify as a sport. They are for enjoyment and for furthering one's skills as a driver.
I have been participating in track events for 13 years, and am a nationally certified driving instructor with the Porsche Club of America (PCA). I have been driving primarily with the local Porsche Club region, the Riesentöter Region of the PCA. I have also driven with at least a dozen other PCA club regions, Audi clubs, and independent driving clubs throughout the years, and have instructed at most of them, too.
Our club is one of the better ones in terms of organization and safety, in my opinion. I say this not to criticize the other clubs, but to show that even in the best run organizations, fatal incidents can happen during Driver Education events.
In our club, a minimum of five point safety harnesses are required for the intermediate run group and higher. We have five run groups, and the first two qualify as beginner. Helmets must be a Snell Rating of 95 or 2000 and all drivers must wear long sleeve natural fiber shirts and pants as a minimum. We have no other requirements as far as safety, but most experienced drivers do use many more safety items in their cars or on their bodies, such as racing seats, neck collars, nomex race suits and boots/gloves, roll bars/cages, and neck support devices.
This incident may cause our club to change our safety equipment mandates, or it may not. What concerns me is that there may not be a full realization among participants on how risky this hobby can be. If a fatality can happen at the beginner level of our club, it can happen in any other club, too. Ultimately, unless clubs start instituting stricter minimum requirements, it is up to you as the driver to ensure that you are properly equipped for safety. Currently, the minimum requirements may not be enough.
Reports at the track from eyewitnesses to the crash and the immediate aftermath suggest that a neck support device may have saved this man's life. I am nervous to state this in public, as it may be premature considering that no official coroner report has been issued, and the incident is at this time still under investigation. But I was at the track, and the information that prompts me to make this statement is not from third or fourth hand accounts, altered or blurred as it passes from person to person. It is the best info available at the time, and I do not feel that the recommendation for more safety devices can be reckless. I do not want to suggest that the driver was somehow negligent in not using a neck support device, either, as I myself have not been using one, not have most of the instructors, let alone drivers, that I see at events. I know that it is treading almost on forbidden territory to start making conclusions or statements about someone's death so soon after it happened and how it possibly could have been prevented, and I thought long and hard about writing this. I am writing this with the best intentions and due respect.
There are a few neck support devices on the market at this time. They gained in use especially after Dale Earnhardt died in a crash at the Daytona 500 in 2001. It is commonly believed that Dale died of a basilar skull fracture, which has become recognized as a very common cause of death among race drivers. Whether or not a neck support device would have saved Dale, this device was designed to minimize the chance of this type of injury. With the Watkins Glen fatality this past weekend, the fact that the driver's helmet had lifted forward off his head in a frontal impact may suggest that a neck support device may have helped here, too. I am not qualified to make definitive conclusions about this incident, but once again, I do not feel that I am out of line suggesting more safety when participating in these type of events.
In all the years I have been participating in Driver Education events, I have only witnessed two injuries serious enough to require emergency medical treatment and hospitalization. Considering the number of track days I have attended and the number of participants these events assemble, that is not a lot. This past weekend was a wake up call for a lot of us. Many of my fellow instructors were in tears, as was I, and all of us were in shock and disbelief.
If you plan on attending a Driver Education event for the first time, or have been attending them for years, please take the extra time to reassess your safety protocols. A lot of safety equipment is still expensive, but any piece of equipment that is certified has been proven to provide protection for the driver if used properly. Neck support devices are still an expensive piece of equipment, and there are three different designs that I know of, but I now believe that they should be on the short list of mandatory pieces of equipment, even for first timers. Instructors should note, however, that not every design allows use with three point safety belts, and a lot of beginner drivers requiring instructors only have these type of belts in their cars. Perhaps five point harnesses should now be mandatory even for even first timers.
Bengt-Erik Wiholm, the driver killed this weekend, was a customer of ours. Our prayers are with his family.
While the details of the crash are still under investigation, reports gathered during our instructor meeting at the track indicate that the driver lost control under braking in the "laces of the boot" area of the track.
The crash was a single car incident. It was head-on into the tire barrier at the bottom of this downhill turn. Reports confirm that the driver's helmet was partially removed from his head after the crash, but remained intact.
The driver was in our green run group, which is our beginner run group. Speeds in this turn are around 70-80mph for beginning drivers.
I am making this post because the hobby of attending Driver Education events at racetracks has grown tremendously over the last decade, and I know a lot of forum members here participate in them.
For those people who may not be familiar with Driver Education events, they are organization run lapping days at racetracks. You bring your own car and run at speed with other cars on the racetrack. Passing is limited to straight-aways and only with a permission signal from the driver being passed. They are not competitions, and therefore do not really qualify as a sport. They are for enjoyment and for furthering one's skills as a driver.
I have been participating in track events for 13 years, and am a nationally certified driving instructor with the Porsche Club of America (PCA). I have been driving primarily with the local Porsche Club region, the Riesentöter Region of the PCA. I have also driven with at least a dozen other PCA club regions, Audi clubs, and independent driving clubs throughout the years, and have instructed at most of them, too.
Our club is one of the better ones in terms of organization and safety, in my opinion. I say this not to criticize the other clubs, but to show that even in the best run organizations, fatal incidents can happen during Driver Education events.
In our club, a minimum of five point safety harnesses are required for the intermediate run group and higher. We have five run groups, and the first two qualify as beginner. Helmets must be a Snell Rating of 95 or 2000 and all drivers must wear long sleeve natural fiber shirts and pants as a minimum. We have no other requirements as far as safety, but most experienced drivers do use many more safety items in their cars or on their bodies, such as racing seats, neck collars, nomex race suits and boots/gloves, roll bars/cages, and neck support devices.
This incident may cause our club to change our safety equipment mandates, or it may not. What concerns me is that there may not be a full realization among participants on how risky this hobby can be. If a fatality can happen at the beginner level of our club, it can happen in any other club, too. Ultimately, unless clubs start instituting stricter minimum requirements, it is up to you as the driver to ensure that you are properly equipped for safety. Currently, the minimum requirements may not be enough.
Reports at the track from eyewitnesses to the crash and the immediate aftermath suggest that a neck support device may have saved this man's life. I am nervous to state this in public, as it may be premature considering that no official coroner report has been issued, and the incident is at this time still under investigation. But I was at the track, and the information that prompts me to make this statement is not from third or fourth hand accounts, altered or blurred as it passes from person to person. It is the best info available at the time, and I do not feel that the recommendation for more safety devices can be reckless. I do not want to suggest that the driver was somehow negligent in not using a neck support device, either, as I myself have not been using one, not have most of the instructors, let alone drivers, that I see at events. I know that it is treading almost on forbidden territory to start making conclusions or statements about someone's death so soon after it happened and how it possibly could have been prevented, and I thought long and hard about writing this. I am writing this with the best intentions and due respect.
There are a few neck support devices on the market at this time. They gained in use especially after Dale Earnhardt died in a crash at the Daytona 500 in 2001. It is commonly believed that Dale died of a basilar skull fracture, which has become recognized as a very common cause of death among race drivers. Whether or not a neck support device would have saved Dale, this device was designed to minimize the chance of this type of injury. With the Watkins Glen fatality this past weekend, the fact that the driver's helmet had lifted forward off his head in a frontal impact may suggest that a neck support device may have helped here, too. I am not qualified to make definitive conclusions about this incident, but once again, I do not feel that I am out of line suggesting more safety when participating in these type of events.
In all the years I have been participating in Driver Education events, I have only witnessed two injuries serious enough to require emergency medical treatment and hospitalization. Considering the number of track days I have attended and the number of participants these events assemble, that is not a lot. This past weekend was a wake up call for a lot of us. Many of my fellow instructors were in tears, as was I, and all of us were in shock and disbelief.
If you plan on attending a Driver Education event for the first time, or have been attending them for years, please take the extra time to reassess your safety protocols. A lot of safety equipment is still expensive, but any piece of equipment that is certified has been proven to provide protection for the driver if used properly. Neck support devices are still an expensive piece of equipment, and there are three different designs that I know of, but I now believe that they should be on the short list of mandatory pieces of equipment, even for first timers. Instructors should note, however, that not every design allows use with three point safety belts, and a lot of beginner drivers requiring instructors only have these type of belts in their cars. Perhaps five point harnesses should now be mandatory even for even first timers.
Bengt-Erik Wiholm, the driver killed this weekend, was a customer of ours. Our prayers are with his family.
08-01-2005, 01:07 PM
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Another very sad story. It seems with the growing popularity of open track events, we are hearing more and more of these tragedies. I'm not sure what it ultimately is going to mean to these events, but I'm sure increased safety requirements in the beginner groups will be just the beginning point...
My thoughts go out to the family, friends and all effected by this terrible accident.
My thoughts go out to the family, friends and all effected by this terrible accident.
Last edited by tigerdrvr; 08-01-2005 at 01:14 PM.
08-01-2005, 01:35 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
That's tough to hear. My heart goes out to his family and those who will be affected by the news.
I think about us who do this stuff and know how close to the edge of the knife we are at times when we’re on track. It sure puts our vulnerability into sharp focus, doesn’t it?
If he were a green student, I wonder why was he on the track alone? I assumed he was solo because there was no mention of a passenger.
I think about us who do this stuff and know how close to the edge of the knife we are at times when we’re on track. It sure puts our vulnerability into sharp focus, doesn’t it?
If he were a green student, I wonder why was he on the track alone? I assumed he was solo because there was no mention of a passenger.
08-01-2005, 01:51 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Been there; done that; walked away, by the grace of God.
Let's face it--if you push hard and do this long enough, sooner or later you'll lose control, and I do not mind admitting I am not good at spin recovery. Where and how do you practice? Maybe we need more autocross time before we hit the road courses.
In the meantime, I will be getting a neck restraint before I hit the track again. The three ones typically mentioned all seem to cost "about $1,000.00", but if it saves your life, it's money well spent.
Finally, our hobby will go away if someone sues and makes it impossible to insure events anymore. Hopefully we are all big boys and girls enough not to go that route, as we should know there is risk involved, but someone's spouse or children will probably go there soon enough, and that will be too bad.
My prayers are with this man's family.
Let's face it--if you push hard and do this long enough, sooner or later you'll lose control, and I do not mind admitting I am not good at spin recovery. Where and how do you practice? Maybe we need more autocross time before we hit the road courses.
In the meantime, I will be getting a neck restraint before I hit the track again. The three ones typically mentioned all seem to cost "about $1,000.00", but if it saves your life, it's money well spent.
Finally, our hobby will go away if someone sues and makes it impossible to insure events anymore. Hopefully we are all big boys and girls enough not to go that route, as we should know there is risk involved, but someone's spouse or children will probably go there soon enough, and that will be too bad.
My prayers are with this man's family.
08-01-2005, 02:16 PM
#5
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Our prayers and thoughs go out to this family. 
I know and have talked to several ppl who were at this event, they have not mentioned this incident.
A few notes on safty:
1. 5-point belts can only be used with a race seat, 6-points for race seats or stock seats. Stock belts are still very very good.
2. only street tires for beginner, novice or intermediat students. No R compounds.
3. a HANS device is a good idea, but only works with a proper harnesses and race seats.
4. Law suits are MOOT point. when you enter the track you sign your life away and agree, for your self and you are signing for your family, that you or your representivites will NOT AND AGREE THAT you can not file a law suit. Yes these releases have been held up in court with the law suit being tossed out.
With out the release of liabilty there will be no motorsports or any sports compition of any kind. It is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY for ALL your actions. Plain and simple.
There is no 'IF' you hit a wall, it is "WHEN" you hit a wall. We never go say this will not happen but it does. Been there, done that. That is why many ppl go put more and more saftey equiment in their cars.
I know and have talked to several ppl who were at this event, they have not mentioned this incident.
A few notes on safty:
1. 5-point belts can only be used with a race seat, 6-points for race seats or stock seats. Stock belts are still very very good.
2. only street tires for beginner, novice or intermediat students. No R compounds.
3. a HANS device is a good idea, but only works with a proper harnesses and race seats.
4. Law suits are MOOT point. when you enter the track you sign your life away and agree, for your self and you are signing for your family, that you or your representivites will NOT AND AGREE THAT you can not file a law suit. Yes these releases have been held up in court with the law suit being tossed out.
With out the release of liabilty there will be no motorsports or any sports compition of any kind. It is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY for ALL your actions. Plain and simple.
There is no 'IF' you hit a wall, it is "WHEN" you hit a wall. We never go say this will not happen but it does. Been there, done that. That is why many ppl go put more and more saftey equiment in their cars.
08-01-2005, 02:52 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Here are a couple of links to more info about the incident:
Rennlist
Local news article
There were 2 Porsche events over the past few days there. This occured in the one over the weekend, not the one a day or 2 prior.
Rennlist
Local news article
There were 2 Porsche events over the past few days there. This occured in the one over the weekend, not the one a day or 2 prior.
08-01-2005, 05:46 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
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Again, the reason my next "mod" is a HANS or similar....I am also surprised he was signed off to solo the end of the first day - tired, excited, and noice are a bad combo. Who knows, it could be a car malfunction as well, which also makes you think...check your tires, wheels, brakes, and suspension before every event, and between sessions, as those things will keep you in control
08-01-2005, 06:16 PM
#8
Race Director
I have always felt wearing a helmet in car under many types of crashes can do more harm than good if a HANS type device is not used. The added weight of the helmet is brutal on your neck, that extra mass turns into alot of strain. If you are properly restrained in your seat the main parts of your body should be held still in a crash however your head is free to move in any direction. Do I own a HANS, no but probably should.
And one other thing that always surprises me is track days allowing Convertibles to run, they have no where near the needed roll over protection.
And one other thing that always surprises me is track days allowing Convertibles to run, they have no where near the needed roll over protection.
Last edited by rgregory; 08-01-2005 at 06:18 PM.
08-01-2005, 06:50 PM
#9
Very sad news!! My Prayers are with the driver and family.
As for a HANS, I bit the bullet and bought one after putting it off for a little while and the very first race I had it I had the misfortune of having to test it with a heavy hit into the wall. (Not really my doing) If you don't have a head restraint BUY ONE!! I am glad I did and will not race without it. When I was in the car I didn't even know it was there.
As for a HANS, I bit the bullet and bought one after putting it off for a little while and the very first race I had it I had the misfortune of having to test it with a heavy hit into the wall. (Not really my doing) If you don't have a head restraint BUY ONE!! I am glad I did and will not race without it. When I was in the car I didn't even know it was there.
08-01-2005, 07:34 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Our prayers and thoughs go out to this family. Law suits are MOOT point. when you enter the track you sign your life away and agree, for your self and you are signing for your family, that you or your representivites will NOT AND AGREE THAT you can not file a law suit. Yes these releases have been held up in court with the law suit being tossed out. With out the release of liabilty there will be no motorsports or any sports compition of any kind. It is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY for ALL your actions. Plain and simple.
I hope it doesn't come to it, but we might all have to consider that this could become a much more expensive pursuit.
08-01-2005, 08:48 PM
#12
Team Owner
God Bless him and his family and friends. More cars, events, and faster cars will increase the numbers unfortunately. The bar raises every year and so do the chances. Cars are made for a 60 MPH crash at best for DOT standards. Now we go 150 and more and think we are safe. Race car speeds and passenger car standards. I am surprised we don't see more tire failures. Getting like boat racing pay the money and go no qualifications. I haven't read what happen this time in any detail. Sad but this is the tip of the iceberg unfortunaely.
08-01-2005, 09:08 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
I think 2 racers spun there during the last T1 race. The down hill into that turn is very very fast. on occasion, I look down at the speedo there, and IIRC it's about 80.
actually every corner at WGI is high speeds.
actually every corner at WGI is high speeds.
08-01-2005, 10:17 PM
#14
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My sympathies to the family. That said I can not believe the # of people out there racing and doing Track Days on a regular basis that do not have/use a Head & Neck restraint system. Common excuse is cost, but the same person will buy a big brake setup or a Cool Shirt or whatever. Dying in an accident whether it's your fault or not is much easier on everyone than living the rest of your life as a quadriplegic...these systems limit side to side and front to back movement assuming you have a proper belt/harness/seat/bar setup. Buy one and use it; you won't be sorry.
08-01-2005, 10:23 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by rbeckham
Tom - I agree with you completely, especially about personal responsibility, but Aquaman's point is valid. If there is only a small blip in the number of serious or fatal incidents at HPDEs (which easily might then become a "media driven event" for those constantly searching for causes) no insurance company would to bother to cover a local club or even a national one for the huge potential liablility of things like "wrongful death" suits. Anybody has the right to sue for any reason whatsoever, and the big insurance companies don't need that (or us HPDE drivers, when it comes down to it) if it becomes a high-profile issue. As a separate matter, the tracks themselves might have to weigh the revenue they get from private clubs and organizations against the potential legal risks if it were to become a "60-minute" kind of issue.
I hope it doesn't come to it, but we might all have to consider that this could become a much more expensive pursuit.
I hope it doesn't come to it, but we might all have to consider that this could become a much more expensive pursuit.
I seriously thought about not posting this thread because of the publicity that it is generating. And, agree totally with the above quote along that same line of thinking.
My thought that necessitated the post, though, was the overwhelming need to spread the word about "safety". Correct harnesses, snug helmets, neck protection and 100% mechanically correct machinery is the only way to go.
08-02-2005, 12:08 AM
#16
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It is truly a tragedy when someone is killed or seriously injured. As many have said, your heart goes out to the victim's family and friends. Regarding the safety of driving events, it's hard to see how it can be anything but an issue of personal responsibility. Nobody thinks they are going to be killed or injured, but you've got your head in the sand if you think it's not possible. What we do is a little like sky diving. The statistics show it to be a pretty safe activity, but inevitably, there will be accidents. I'll always remember "Evil Dave's" (instructor at Bragg-Smith/Spring Mtn) admonition: "Sometimes bad things happen".
08-02-2005, 12:33 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by rbeckham
Anybody has the right to sue for any reason whatsoever, and the big insurance companies don't need that (or us HPDE drivers, when it comes down to it) if it becomes a high-profile issue. As a separate matter, the tracks themselves might have to weigh the revenue they get from private clubs and organizations against the potential legal risks if it were to become a "60-minute" kind of issue.
Bill
08-02-2005, 01:08 AM
#18
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Bill - please don't misunderstand me. I agree. I sign the waiver and I understand it and agree with it. But if somebody hires a lawyer and sues, everything is brought into question until it gets to the Supreme Court, and in the meantime a "jury of your peers" may decide to fine you a hundred million dollars, after you have paid your lawyers a lot of money.
But what do I know? OJ and MJ were probably innocent, I suppose. Logic and justice prevail. Except when they don't.
But what do I know? OJ and MJ were probably innocent, I suppose. Logic and justice prevail. Except when they don't.
08-02-2005, 03:11 AM
#19
Drifting
I don't know if my comments apply in this case, but I feel it is very important for me to make this point.
Someone above said that maybe we should require a few autocrosses before we let a beginner onto a race track. I agree. In fact, I think a professional driver's school would be in order.
I can't believe how many DE drivers do not know what they should do if their car spins out, or if it plows (understeers) into a corner, or if it slides off the track, or etc. These people are pushing their cars to the limit and beyond, but many of them have no idea how to handle a car when it goes out of control.
A great driver can feel when a spin starts, instantly and intuitively correct, and prevent the spin from happening. Or he can feel that he over-braked (that the car is skidding), release the brakes slightly, and regain control before the car skids off the side of the corner. He knows if the car slides completely off the track, that he should push the clutch and brake to the floor, and wait for the car to skid to a stop. Or if the car slides partially off the track, he will not try to pull the car back onto the track before he has regained control of it. These (and many more examples) are all things that expert drivers know and do correctly without thinking. These are the things most beginners do NOT know. When a beginner pushes his car beyond the limit, he usually does the wrong thing to recover, which usually makes a dangerous situation even more dangerous.
I personally do not have a HANS device, fire suit, racing seat, etc. But I have attended the Skip Barber advanced driving course. During that class, I learned skid control (oversteer, understeer, and four wheel drift), threshold braking in a straight line, threshold braking while turning, how to do an extremely quick lane change without losing control, and how to drive very smoothly (with no sudden movements that disrupt the vehicle stability). Then I took that training and practiced it at several autocrosses. I am QUALIFIED to drive near, at, or even slightly beyond the limits, because I have been taught how to do it. I know that training (those skills) have protected me from injury several times on the track and occasionally on public roads too.
I strongly believe that we can save the most lives and prevent the most injuries at DE's, by forcing beginner drivers into some kind of hi-performance driving training, before we let them out onto the track - before we let them into a situation they are not qualified to handle.
What do you think? Do you think my ideas are spot on, or crazy, or somewhere in between?
Someone above said that maybe we should require a few autocrosses before we let a beginner onto a race track. I agree. In fact, I think a professional driver's school would be in order.
I can't believe how many DE drivers do not know what they should do if their car spins out, or if it plows (understeers) into a corner, or if it slides off the track, or etc. These people are pushing their cars to the limit and beyond, but many of them have no idea how to handle a car when it goes out of control.
A great driver can feel when a spin starts, instantly and intuitively correct, and prevent the spin from happening. Or he can feel that he over-braked (that the car is skidding), release the brakes slightly, and regain control before the car skids off the side of the corner. He knows if the car slides completely off the track, that he should push the clutch and brake to the floor, and wait for the car to skid to a stop. Or if the car slides partially off the track, he will not try to pull the car back onto the track before he has regained control of it. These (and many more examples) are all things that expert drivers know and do correctly without thinking. These are the things most beginners do NOT know. When a beginner pushes his car beyond the limit, he usually does the wrong thing to recover, which usually makes a dangerous situation even more dangerous.
I personally do not have a HANS device, fire suit, racing seat, etc. But I have attended the Skip Barber advanced driving course. During that class, I learned skid control (oversteer, understeer, and four wheel drift), threshold braking in a straight line, threshold braking while turning, how to do an extremely quick lane change without losing control, and how to drive very smoothly (with no sudden movements that disrupt the vehicle stability). Then I took that training and practiced it at several autocrosses. I am QUALIFIED to drive near, at, or even slightly beyond the limits, because I have been taught how to do it. I know that training (those skills) have protected me from injury several times on the track and occasionally on public roads too.
I strongly believe that we can save the most lives and prevent the most injuries at DE's, by forcing beginner drivers into some kind of hi-performance driving training, before we let them out onto the track - before we let them into a situation they are not qualified to handle.
What do you think? Do you think my ideas are spot on, or crazy, or somewhere in between?
Last edited by bobmoore2; 08-02-2005 at 03:17 AM.
08-02-2005, 06:21 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
*NOTE: My comments here are more in general to the HPDE/ Track day activities in general and do not imply what may or may not have happened to the victom of the incident at the Glen.
One of the LARGEST mistakes made in the sportbike community when a death occurs is everyone shuts down and nobody wants to discuss why an incident happened or IF there was mechanical or driver's error that caused the incident.
This is a mistake of epic proportions.
We, as students and instructors need to first understand the potential dangers of this sport, and deal with the fact that what we are doing is potentially lethal if the car you are driving or riding in makes contact with something solid and stationary.
"What happened?" is a natural instinct for all of us. But the more important aspect is "What could have been done to prevent the incident?" is what we all NEED to comprehend and deal with situations like this. The fear of lawyers and the legal system shutting us down is a bogus reason to attempt to quiet the many who ask the questions. Bottom line is IF the insurance companies decide to shut these events down, some folks chatting on a bulletin board won't be the cause of it. To assume that, implies that we make more of an impression than is reality.
Five weeks ago at VIR we had a near miss that could have potentially been as bad as the Carrera incident at Fontana (The infamous Viper sliding out of control infront of the BMW video that has become infamous). That driver is still driving events, and we have no idea what was done to reign him in. Will anyone confront the driver or his potential lack of ability to control his car? Not likely. No one wants to deal with the stress of challenging a person's qualifications, because they don't want that attention to potetially be turned back on them. Bottom line is until we as a community demand safer HPDEs, we won't get them and the events will eventually get shut down.
It's been mentioned here in this forum that racing is becoming more and more safe while HPDEs are becoming more and more dangerous. These events become more and more popular, and draw in more and more untrained drivers who think they are great. What will eventually happen is that we will be forced to keep drivers with instructors longer, require more seat time before solo sign off, and sending a lot more people home for lack of safety while driving. I predict we're gonna hear a lot more about people being black flagged and sent home early for bad behavior... And I hope it happens sooner rather than later. We can speculate about safety devices all we want. But the bottom line is if we all keep our cars on the track, and pass each other at safe zones with point bys at the appropriate places, and we all watch our mirrors, and flag stations, we can correct a lot of the bad behavior that is occuring on track. WE have to police ourselves or the insurance groups that cover these events will... Choice is ours.
Mike
One of the LARGEST mistakes made in the sportbike community when a death occurs is everyone shuts down and nobody wants to discuss why an incident happened or IF there was mechanical or driver's error that caused the incident.
This is a mistake of epic proportions.
We, as students and instructors need to first understand the potential dangers of this sport, and deal with the fact that what we are doing is potentially lethal if the car you are driving or riding in makes contact with something solid and stationary.
"What happened?" is a natural instinct for all of us. But the more important aspect is "What could have been done to prevent the incident?" is what we all NEED to comprehend and deal with situations like this. The fear of lawyers and the legal system shutting us down is a bogus reason to attempt to quiet the many who ask the questions. Bottom line is IF the insurance companies decide to shut these events down, some folks chatting on a bulletin board won't be the cause of it. To assume that, implies that we make more of an impression than is reality.
Five weeks ago at VIR we had a near miss that could have potentially been as bad as the Carrera incident at Fontana (The infamous Viper sliding out of control infront of the BMW video that has become infamous). That driver is still driving events, and we have no idea what was done to reign him in. Will anyone confront the driver or his potential lack of ability to control his car? Not likely. No one wants to deal with the stress of challenging a person's qualifications, because they don't want that attention to potetially be turned back on them. Bottom line is until we as a community demand safer HPDEs, we won't get them and the events will eventually get shut down.
It's been mentioned here in this forum that racing is becoming more and more safe while HPDEs are becoming more and more dangerous. These events become more and more popular, and draw in more and more untrained drivers who think they are great. What will eventually happen is that we will be forced to keep drivers with instructors longer, require more seat time before solo sign off, and sending a lot more people home for lack of safety while driving. I predict we're gonna hear a lot more about people being black flagged and sent home early for bad behavior... And I hope it happens sooner rather than later. We can speculate about safety devices all we want. But the bottom line is if we all keep our cars on the track, and pass each other at safe zones with point bys at the appropriate places, and we all watch our mirrors, and flag stations, we can correct a lot of the bad behavior that is occuring on track. WE have to police ourselves or the insurance groups that cover these events will... Choice is ours.
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; 08-02-2005 at 06:24 AM.