sundiego

Cool memories!

The cars dart randomly left or right under braking, partially due to flexing of the acid dipped frames. The best way to slow them is to get them a bit sideways, and since the rear tires are so much wider, the back stays the back most of the time. I wish I could do it a quarter as well as John Greenwood did it.

sundiego

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance

Provenance is the history of the car on the track , in the day, and to this day, and the proveable ownership line.

Any car that has raced has provenance. It would seem you are rejecting any car that is not up to your standards as not having provenance. The Larry Parks car has provenance. It does not have the level necessary to get it in major events now. It has enough provenance to make it a fabulous dream car for a real Corvette guy to own, rebuild and track in some events. It is a historic car. For many groups it is not old enough to be a vintage car.

The British consider a vintage car only from 1919 to 1930. In the '70s in America it usually meant 25 years and older. Now the cutoff line is grey.

Many fans would disagree with extending the prime SCCA A & B period to as late as the 70's. The better racers had long gone to Trans Am.

There were 7 C3s in group 6A, so Steve must have got over his dislike of them.

73-84 Imsa Wide Body's car, for example has provenance. It has been on the track in recent years, and has a trail of ownership, that becomes important to me when the current owner's brother made it his life's passion. It is not a historic car or a vintage car. It is an amazing car guy story when you learn the complete details.

redvetracr

vintage racing is pretty real in the Midwest and east coast, VSCDA, SVRA and HSR is as close as it comes. Monterey is a show for the fans ....did the SCCA combine C-2 Corvettes in the same class as C-3 Corvettes and the AC Cobra?...they certainly did. Did a 60`s Cobra beat Tony Delorenzo (in a C-3) for an SCCA A/P national championship in the very late 60`s or early 70`s? yes it did. Those cars raced against each other back then why not now? I believe if you check you will find that group 6 vintage rules are based on SCCA A/P, B/P and A/S rules not Trans-Am rules. You might also take a look who won the KIC at Road America in 2007, one of those mid 60`s cars you think can`t compete with the C-3, A guy I enjoyed racing with more than once, Bill Murray in a 427 Cobra. Jaime Mazzotta may be a talented guy BUT the respect he showed was for Steve Earle when Earle told them at the drivers meeting who would finish 1st, 2nd and 3rd...thats if they want an invite next year. Search out Dan Gerber and ask him how he lost his invitation to Monterey some years ago, he lives in the valley not too far from the Earles...that would be Dan Gerber who races the "prune mush" AC Cobra..."prune mush" as in Gerber foods "prune mush". Gerber won a race he was not supposed to win and Steve Earle refused his entry the next year...for all I know they still refuse his entry as I haven`t seen Gerber for quite a while. My post refers to a 1979 ex SCCA B/P - GT-1 Corvette NOT an IMSA CAR and NOT a GTP car...if you want to keep harping about provenance and 1979 cars go right ahead but thats all MY post referred to.
redvetracr

redvetracr

NOT TRUE, thats not what I said, I would reject THIS car because if you can`t RACE the car then the provenance has no meaning, no value. doing track days and HPDE is NOT racing. Your provenance has meaning and obviously value because John Greenwoods *** sat in the seat.
redvetracr

sundiego

You don't know your terms. That '79 is historic and has provenance. It is not a major history car.

A friend of mine was driving his non-historic Shelby GT-350 at Monterey. He was split, one passing on either side, by a pair of Shelby Daytonas. He laughed at about how much of US auto racing history he could have wiped out with one bad move. In the more agressive series you won't tend to see the more historic cars. 40,000 people go to Monterey to see the cars, not middle aged hobbyists play hero There are lots of places those drivers can do that. Sir Sterling Moss was banned from Monterey for wrecking many historic cars. I agree with that. Drivers who drive beyond their limits and put the field at risk are not invited back, not because they won. I've seen unknown drivers drive well, safely and win and be congratulated by General Racing. I'd like these big history cars to be around for a few more generations. There are series that feel rubbin' is racin', and that's great. They just won't see the best cars often.

sundiego

If you change that to "Your car's history" you'd have the terms right.

Customer car 02 is significant because of the breakthrough technologies done and overseen by John Greenwood. It's downforce bodywork was copied by the German teams and changed the look of production based race cars. It's Riley coil overs were breakthrough as well. The significant relocation of the engine,way back, down and to the right was ground breaking. It "maximized" the rules in ways that changed race cars. John's driving was excellent, but his car building was better. He was no hired gun who showed up on race day and practices. He even designed that seat. There is an extension on the right to support his leg in the endurance races, with a small extra seat belt to strap his leg in place. This was the "mule", test platform car, and his words, his fastest. It set the speed record at Daytona at the time at 236 MPH. In spite of the Chassis number 02, it was the first customer car. The Spirit of Sebring '76 car was more famous, probably because that was an even better year to have a flag on the hood, but this may be the most historic.

This is not one of those race cars whose value is just because someone famous drove it a few times.

Instead of complaining and moaning how unfair Steve Earle is to you and bragging about what a stud you are on the track, why don't you share some interesting history about your car? With the exception of the pros and the great amateurs like Heinricy, the cars are the stars here.

redvetracr

I`m not complaining about Steve Earle, I am not traveling to race in CA, I am simply pointing out that at Monterey "the races are sometimes fixed", making Monterey less of a competitive event and more of a spectacle for the paying public, most of which may or may not know the difference. You continue to neglect the fact my post is directed at an ex SCCA B/P car built in 1979 NOT an IMSA car and NOT a "P" car, (therefore I will not be responding to you in this thread again but PLEASE let me know if and when you beat another guy I know and have raced with in the past, Rob Walton, a guy who IS there to win), that `79 Corvette is a car that you basically can`t race anywhere with the exception of SVRA gr-10 where it would be racing against all the cars with wings and slicks, the SVRA also no longer requires any previous race history making the subject of provenance a moot point. The "bragging" as you put it is being done by the guy who paid Lance (another guy I know well) upwards of "half a mil" for a Greenwood Corvette and has found a way to inject his GTP car into a discussion about Corvette race cars. NOT BY ME!
As to my car it`s the third of three cars built by the Owens-Corning fiberglass team. Mine was built in the winter of 1970 from a recovered theft Delorenzo bought from Don Yenko. When O-C was converting their cars to full roll cages mine got one of the three cages Delorenzo had bent up by ( MI. funny car chassis builder) Logghe stamping, John Thompson`s car and Harry Yeaggy`s cars have long since lost their full roll cages. The car was put on a Pan-Am jet and flown to Europe for Tony`s friend (and then Pan-Am pilot Curt Wetzel) to race in Germany. I have pics and race results from Germany, Wetzel also won the 50th anniversary race at the Berlin track called the AVUS where he set a lap record. After two years in Germany Wetzel returned the car to the US where it was bought by Canadian Porsche dealer Cam Champion (performance motors, St. Catherines ONT), Champion told me he spent $50,000 racing that car in one year, winning a 6hr "sundowner" at Mosport, what he didn`t tell me was that he never paid Wetzel all the money for the car, once I found him Wetzel told me that. It was then sold to Robert Millican (Butler PA) who raced it in SCCA regionals, nationals and an occasional Trans-Am, he sold it to his friend William Steiss who raced it and sold it to Larry Gross who raced a few nationals and went to the CSPRRC in 1978 (Champion spark plug road race classic...maybe the Runoffs?), Gross primarily raced the Trans-Am series competing at BIR, Elkhart and Trois Rivieres, he also raced the bigger spectator nationals, he then sold the car to Keith Berg who rebodied it as a 78 with a Greenwood style nose, Keith raced regionals, nationals and the occasional Trans-Am at Elkhart and Brainerd. He sold the car to Mitch Poremba who raced regionals and nationals, I bought it from Mitch in `94 and got a log book that started in `74 so I had no clue the car had been raced previous until in 98 at the BRIC (it might have still been the Chicago Historics) a friend of Poremba`s asked if I knew the history....I said there is NO HISTORY, he said YOU CHECK IT OUT, as if he knew something I didn`t know, after doing some research the trail led from #2 in the log book "Steiss", to his best friend #1 in the book "Millican" who told me the story about Europe is BS, but he bought the car from "Cam Champion" the Porsche dealer who told me he bought the car from the German Curt Wetzel and that Tony Delorenzo built it for him...now at that 98 Elkhart race I went and introduced myself to Delorenzo who wasn`t happy with the way my car was painted (we honestly did it as a tribute to what O-C accomplished) and now I have to call Tony and ask about Wetzel...Tony kind of chuckled and told me Wetzel lived in Berlin Germany but what he didn`t know is that my mother in law was born in Munich and still has relatives there so with one phone call I had Wetzel`s address and telephone number. I called Wetzel who sent me some pics and told me the history, my wife has a cousin in Germany who has a friend at the ADAC (like our SCCA) they sent me race results, through the race car mooch and writer of "the Last open road" books Burt "BS" Levy I got to a guy in IN who used to write for Autoweek in Europe, one mention of a Corvette in Germany and he knew Wetzel, he sent a couple of articles one that talks about a young mechanic Bruce Stewart who went from working for the Owens-Corning team to being Wetzel`s mechanic in Germany (Bruce Stewart is a reverend in FL now), the articles also tell how in Germany they play the national anthem of the winner and Wetzel`s stewardess girl friend would always have to run and tell them that Wetzel is an American and they would have to start all over playing the USA national anthem, the article also says in Germany the car was known as the psychedelic Corvette because of it`s blue white & purple paint (applied by GM styling engineer and Tony`s friend Randy Wittene, now a senior styling engineer at GM), a few years ago at Elkhart I brought my collection of paperwork and as Delorenzo sat and stared at the one color pic of the car I had at that time he quietly said "thats the best paint job we ever did"...Within a couple of years of GM dropping the big block in the Corvette the SCCA dropped A/P and everyone racing SCCA ran a small block, I had a 355" from my SCCA days and reused that, it became clear everyone was stretching the rules and to compete so did I, that was when I started going fast and winning, winning a total of six group 6 races overall. Then in `03 or `04 it became clear I had to step up again so first the little clutch, then the T-101 trans and finally the 635hp 414" motor, I never went so fast and while I raced that motor only twice I got one 1st and a 2nd place, I also went a blindingly fast, 2:25.0 at Elkhart lake.....knowing then what I know now I would have had an all aluminum 427" bb built and I would have still been racing but after the BRIC crash of `05 some of the same people who were at least partially responsible for the crash decided the crash was the fault of all the over prepared cars, they decided my car needed a big weight penalty with that 414" sb and I have since parked the car after racing once in 2005 and once in 2006.
redvetracr

my car as originally raced in Germany 1971-1972

1uponu

o-c team car B.S. so if i worked on a race car at greenwoods shop does that make it a greenwood car. redvetacr you got to much free time to make up stories. GET A JOB...

driver1969

Sundiego, look forward to seeing your car in action again at Monterey this year. Also looking forward to seeing a GTP car out there. Should be fun. You took a pic of me sitting in your car at last years historics, thanks!

redvetracr

And you know this because you have seen the chain of ownership? the documentation? or because YOU asked Delorenzo? I`m not the one who ran with his tail between his legs to Arizona because he screwed all his friends, his customers and even screwed his relatives out of money...that would be you. I`m not the one who had to modify his last name to get a drivers license in AZ because I lost mine for drunk driving in IL...again, that would be you...I am not the one who became someones slave because I wrecked his Ferrari trying to show off...once again, that would be you..(shall I keep going?). I am however the one who worked in your shop three days a week for 15 months learning your tricks watching you spend your days stratigizing while you pushed a broom accomplishing next to nothing while wondering all along how he was going to pay the rent. I am the one who answered your phone when someone you owed money to or owed work to called and asked where you were. I am the one who entered 36 vintage races and WON GROUP-6 OVERALL SIX TIMES AT ROAD AMERICA (which one of the cars that you built won six gr-6 races overall at R/A? and which one of the cars you built went faster than my 2:25.0 at R/A without having someone like Curt or Philipsen redo EVERYTHING you did? answer NONE). I am proud to say I am the ONLY ONE who escaped your bull**** and thievery WITHOUT getting screwed.....I am the one who offered Vern Brown $9K for his green car (which was too much money) only to find out later you paid him $20K, or should I say cousin Jimmy paid him $20K and stole his scrap book on top of it. All Vern Brown told me he had to do was mention my name and that set the hook in your mouth, he said reeling you in and collecting $20K for that pile of junk was the easy part...How is YOUR chopper gun working? That would be the chopper gun I paid $500 for...as if I didn`t know exactly who you were the first time you posted, the wannabee racer who never took a lap anywhere....did you replace the drywall you ripped out of your wifes house yet? still have a backyard full of old junk cars up on jackstands? Is that why you didn`t want Ron D to visit while he was in AZ this past Jan?...The one remaining friend you think you have in the Midwest couldn`t stop laughing when he told me the story about the drywall and the cars in the backyard, he was also ready to climb across the table at dinner and punch you when you dreamed out loud about all the things you were going to do...things he knew would NEVER get done...and most likely haven`t gotten done......
redvetracr

PS: I am also NOT the one that screwed Dick Guldstrand and tried to screw Bill Behling.....now how do you suppose Behling got your mothers phone number so he could call her on mothers day?...

mwvettec5

If there's not a forum rule about BRAND new (2 posts !!!) members trashing a long time senior member there SHOULD be !!!

RedVetRacer - quit wasting your breath on these "wanabe" so-called "racers".

Where do I get the "nerve" to say the above - here's a pic of ME driving MY '69 roadster in the Elkhart trans-am in 1976 (YES, Greedwood was there, along with Tony D., Jerry Hansen, Peter Greg, etc etc etc) -

DREGSZ

Kinda late to add,, but we aren't talking about a 1983 Corvette

DREGSZ

I haven't been a an Earle event at Laguna since I moved out of the county in Feb 2005, but at the Chevolet Marque year, (2003?) event there were a number of C3s of various provenance racing and on display, including a few currently belonging to people in this thread.

DREGSZ

I agree with this post completely but I have seen Redman etc turn up the heat pretty warm at the Historics and some pretty pricey crashes too.

DREGSZ

I'm just catching up now, unfortunately the thread was getting a bit "Heated" but I agree, the Parks car has Provenance and is historic, and vintage in that it's more then 25 years old, but not as vintage as a 73 or older, which used to be the cutoff point for "Vintage" cars, untill the GTP, IMSA, Historic NASCAR etc classes started gaining some popularity, Some clubs let kit cars race, maybe not the holy grail of General Racing but more then a few will.

On the other hand the widebody cars didn't exist before about 1974/5 but whoever would say a true 75 or 76 Greenwood wide body Lemans car isn't good enough for Any Vintage event is smoking a bunch of Crack.

DREGSZ

Why couldn't you or I race this car?
The cool thing about the Parks car is it's not super valuable or super expensive yet, If I bought it I'd probably race it in current SCCA GT1, because that's real racing.
Personally, I think all you Vintage "racers" are Pussies =P

LS3FORME

EG,

Did not know you where into this stuff Jamie Redman invited me to the last Brian Redman event in Palm Beach at moroso, if you want to be here this year let me know.

You need a scarf, a pipe and a leather helmet. O and a car that is at least 25 years old and driven by someone named sterling,hass,newman, mcqween,polak,stewart,moss, or maybe petty with a rebel flag on the roof.

redvetracr

no actually we are talking about a 1979 Corvette

redvetracr

C-3 Corvettes in 2003 might have had something to do with the feature marque being the 50th anniversary of Corvettes

redvetracr

racing Parks car in GT-1 is like taking a knife to a gun fight, it`s a dinosaur that would have to race against tube frame ex Trans-Am style cars, if you enjoy running at the back of the pack then by all means BUY IT.