Jay Leno's E85 Corvette
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,158
Likes: 395
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada NS
Jay Leno's E85 Corvette
Maybe articles like this will resurrect interest in ethanol...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4261712.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4261712.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 146
From: Chuckanut WA
Interesting article and Corvette but the thing the article doesn't tell you is that fuel mileage is much less with ethanol than with gasoline. It is no secret that you can produce whopping horsepower burning ethanol. Just go to the drags or sprint car races. Economy is not one of its plus points however and that makes it a lot less "green" than aternative fuel advocates want you to believe. Look what it's done to the price of corn alone not to mention that it takes about as much energy to produce it as you get from it. 
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 575
Likes: 7
From: Rio Rancho NM
Here we go again with the misinformation about how bad E85 is.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Here we go again with the misinformation about how bad E85 is.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
Corn is a stopgap, cellulostic ethanol is the way things are going. I've been seriously considering building an e85 engine for my 77, being able to run up to the 12:1 or 13:1 compression range would be fun.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Here we go again with the misinformation about how bad E85 is.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
When you tune and raise the compression to reap the benefits of the higher octane you will see similar mileage.
As for the price of corn, you need to do research on the matter. With the merging ways to produce ethanol and when you figure in the real cost to bring oil to the station it is more than ethanol.
Also, E85 can't be pipelined like gasoline - the ethanol has to be transported from its source in rail tank cars or in tanker trucks and blended with gasoline at the wholesale distribution terminal; that's a LOT of rail tank cars and tanker trucks.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
If you raise the compression, you still won't improve the economy much, due to the lower basic energy content of E85; also, once you raise the compression and run an E85 carburetor, you can't run gasoline any more - you have to stay within range of an E85 station.
Also, E85 can't be pipelined like gasoline - the ethanol has to be transported from its source in rail tank cars or in tanker trucks and blended with gasoline at the wholesale distribution terminal; that's a LOT of rail tank cars and tanker trucks.
Also, E85 can't be pipelined like gasoline - the ethanol has to be transported from its source in rail tank cars or in tanker trucks and blended with gasoline at the wholesale distribution terminal; that's a LOT of rail tank cars and tanker trucks.
There's an ethanol pipeline currently under construction, and real-world tests prove that engines tuned for e85 (with high compression) get back close to the gasoline economy - and of course they're putting out a lot more power for that level of efficiency. If compression was useless, there would never have been muscle cars built for 100+ octane leaded gasoline.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 616
Likes: 1
From: Huntersville NC
There's an ethanol pipeline currently under construction, and real-world tests prove that engines tuned for e85 (with high compression) get back close to the gasoline economy - and of course they're putting out a lot more power for that level of efficiency. If compression was useless, there would never have been muscle cars built for 100+ octane leaded gasoline.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
There's a 1700-mile pipeline under development that would run from the Midwest to the Northeast, plenty of articles on it are available on Google.
Here's an article on Kinder Morgan's pipeline renovations for ethanol in Florida: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...icle456691.ece
Obviously they feel they have the technical issues licked or they wouldn't be going forward with the expensive work.
Pipelining ethanol isn't easy, but it certainly is not impossible. Brazil has been doing it for years. There is a good article about ethanol pipelining and investments on the Motley Fool website, but I cant copy and paste in Firefox at the moment for some reason. Time to reboot.
Here's an article on Kinder Morgan's pipeline renovations for ethanol in Florida: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...icle456691.ece
Obviously they feel they have the technical issues licked or they wouldn't be going forward with the expensive work.
Pipelining ethanol isn't easy, but it certainly is not impossible. Brazil has been doing it for years. There is a good article about ethanol pipelining and investments on the Motley Fool website, but I cant copy and paste in Firefox at the moment for some reason. Time to reboot.
Last edited by I'm Batman; May 11, 2008 at 05:45 PM.
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,158
Likes: 395
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada NS
Website http://www.coskata.com/ says ethanol from "municipal solid waste" - does that mean what I think it does?
?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 678
Likes: 5
From: McKinney Texas
Hopefully nowhere near a college campus or they will be repairing a lot of "leaks". At the same time consumption of "trash can punch" will grow exponentially. Not sure if it is true or not, but I had read that a small amount of gasoline is mixed with the ethanol during transport to discourage consumption.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 809
Likes: 1
From: Houston Texas
I saw my first E85 gas pump this week, it was .30 cheaper than gasoline (E15?) 1.20 cheaper than diesel. I thought maybe they were selling it by the litre. It never said, so I assume by the gallon.
I presume Jays car needs E100 fuel. I guess in a pinch he could use Vodka.
Havent Indy cars used alcohol forever.
Making fuel from my leaves and lawn clippings would be great, finally a use for it.
It all still puts out CO2 so, its really not all that green.
I presume Jays car needs E100 fuel. I guess in a pinch he could use Vodka.
Havent Indy cars used alcohol forever.
Making fuel from my leaves and lawn clippings would be great, finally a use for it.
It all still puts out CO2 so, its really not all that green.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Ethanol and methanol (which is a lot of racing alcohol fuel) are very different things.
Except that with petroleum products, you're digging up carbon from deep underground and adding it into the atmospheric cycle. Plants are recycling what's already up here, and the proposals to use prairie grasses for cellulostic ethanol would actually probably end up trapping more carbon than what they put out when burned due to their extensive root networks.
Umm...
Depending on the proof of the vodka, it likely wouldn't be anywhere near e100 (which would be pure alcohol, 200 proof). The highest-proof commonly available consumable alcohol is Everclear, which is 190 proof - 95% alcohol and 5% water.
It all still puts out CO2 so, its really not all that green.
I presume Jays car needs E100 fuel.
Originally Posted by Jay Leno
Jay Leno's E85 Corvette Shows Powerhouses Can Go Green
Take my 2006 Corvette Z06. Thanks to Pratt & Miller Engineering, a New Hudson, Mich.-based performance shop that specializes in designing and building fast-moving rides for the road and racetrack, the Vette now develops 600 hp, has a top speed of 208 mph and runs on a homegrown alternative to gasoline—cleaner-burning E85 ethanol. Now that's a fun-to-drive car.
Take my 2006 Corvette Z06. Thanks to Pratt & Miller Engineering, a New Hudson, Mich.-based performance shop that specializes in designing and building fast-moving rides for the road and racetrack, the Vette now develops 600 hp, has a top speed of 208 mph and runs on a homegrown alternative to gasoline—cleaner-burning E85 ethanol. Now that's a fun-to-drive car.
I guess in a pinch he could use Vodka.
Last edited by I'm Batman; May 12, 2008 at 05:35 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,380
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From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
My '85 Vette with 305,000 miles on the original engine is a flex-fuel vehicle, and it works really well: 7 cylinders run on gasoline, and one cylinder runs on engine oil. That's my environmental contribution...
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 346
Likes: 2
From: Bellevue WA
Methanol has such a drastically different A/F ratio, compared to gasoline, that even with the higher output, I am missing how you could even come close to meeting the same MPG. Is the A/F ratio for ethanol much different than methanol?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 809
Likes: 1
From: Houston Texas
Except that with petroleum products, you're digging up carbon from deep underground and adding it into the atmospheric cycle. Plants are recycling what's already up here, and the proposals to use prairie grasses for cellulostic ethanol would actually probably end up trapping more carbon than what they put out when burned due to their extensive root networks.
Burning ethanol does not increase the net amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. (unless you factor in the gasoline or diesel burned to collect, produce and distribute the ethanol) But it is certainly better than burning E0.
Of course there is the sunlight reflection factor between prairie grass and a plowed field that would need to be considered, but then I'm the only one who worries about wind generators slowing the rotation of the earth.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Not as familiar with ethanol, but very familiar with methanol.
Methanol has such a drastically different A/F ratio, compared to gasoline, that even with the higher output, I am missing how you could even come close to meeting the same MPG. Is the A/F ratio for ethanol much different than methanol?
Methanol has such a drastically different A/F ratio, compared to gasoline, that even with the higher output, I am missing how you could even come close to meeting the same MPG. Is the A/F ratio for ethanol much different than methanol?
Stoichiometric ratio for regular gasoline is around 14.7:1. Ethanol is (I think) around 9:1, but with a dramatically higher octane rating.
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
From: Minneapolis Minnesota
I fuel up with 11 gallons of e85 and 14 galllons of 87 octaine every week. I have just over 30000 miles running like this no problems yet. Kind of a pain but I have more time than money right now.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 2
From: Corona CA
I have to admit I am not a big believer in ethanol as an engine fuel, nor in significant man-made global warming or cooling, however, I am not against alternative fuels and all in favor of energy independence. Here is my question, for those of you that know more....
I think it is pretty much a chemical fact that ethanol has less energy per volume available than gasoline.... assuming you can extract all of it from either fuel by way of more efficient engines etc. But both probably have enough energy density to make them better choices for portable power than batteries. (personally I am a hydrogen / fuel cell electric supporter though I think that that might be a bit farther out)
Setting aside the idea and questions of burning food as fuel and instead we can use waste or planned cellulose as the source....
Could the US in theory grow enough of what ever this product is to provide all or our fuel energy, including that energy would be required to grow the crop and produce the fuel, anytime in the near future? What about just enough that coupled with our own petroleum resources would it be enough for total independence?
I think it is pretty much a chemical fact that ethanol has less energy per volume available than gasoline.... assuming you can extract all of it from either fuel by way of more efficient engines etc. But both probably have enough energy density to make them better choices for portable power than batteries. (personally I am a hydrogen / fuel cell electric supporter though I think that that might be a bit farther out)
Setting aside the idea and questions of burning food as fuel and instead we can use waste or planned cellulose as the source....
Could the US in theory grow enough of what ever this product is to provide all or our fuel energy, including that energy would be required to grow the crop and produce the fuel, anytime in the near future? What about just enough that coupled with our own petroleum resources would it be enough for total independence?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 2
From: Corona CA
TEP061..are you saying you run your vette on a combo of 87 gasoline and E85? Do you have any special modifications to the carb or engine to allow that?
And a more general question...what is the typical octane rating of e85? Time for some more google searching I think.
And a more general question...what is the typical octane rating of e85? Time for some more google searching I think.