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Noticed that the rag joint has some slop in it, and the stop pins are bent/splayed outboard so that they contact the stops almost at the outer limit.
Time for a new rag joint and since I have to remove the column in order to gain access to my broken clutch pedal/shaft, now is the time.
I can buy a brand new, "correct" joint at LICS for 125 bucks..................great deal!
Question: has anyone installed a rigid coupling without having an alignment problem between the box and the column? If so, then does anyone sell a modified coupler using a more rigid rubber or polyurethane joint? Any suggestions on a steel to steel coupler?
Last edited by 65tripleblack; Mar 11, 2017 at 04:20 PM.
I know the restomod guys use U-joints, more than one in many cases but that means the steering arrangement can't be exactly straight; U-joints are meant to operate at an angle to avoid brinelling.
The rag joint rebuild kits are decent and take just a few minutes to do the job; the LICS products are decent too. In fact they have the ONLY repro that is even close to the original for '63 with the proper 7 layers of fabric.
And, don't forget, the rag joint has the ground strap that transverses the fabric to maintain electrical continuity.
I guess what I'm saying is - just replace the darn thing. If the LICS price is putting you off I have one I've rebuilt I'll sell you for $40 + shipping. Never used as it wouldn't pass NCRS flight judging in a '63...
PM me if you want it, send an email address if you want pictures...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Mar 11, 2017 at 05:43 PM.
Borgeson Joint or so called u Joint don't soften road hits up they the steering, but the positive feel and lack of play are better trade offs! Anyways that is why you have shocks! The column should be in a straight line in the stock configuration and these have set screws to the top and bottom! The stock shaft plunges upwards as a safety feature, but the borgeson if an impact occurs will additionally fold or deflect hopefully from driving the steering wheel thru your chest! The action of the u-Joint configuration is meant for positive turning! And they operate in a straight plane on a stock setup! Yes some guys use them to reroute geometry, but that is usually purposely done or out of necessity based on using non-conventional parts and suspensions! These Joint will probably outlast you in a street or normal non-full race application! Probably would replace 4 or 5 rag joints to one borgeson Joint!
Last edited by TCracingCA; Mar 11, 2017 at 05:36 PM.
Have you looked for a nos service part, as it will have the metal impregnated layer of rubber instead of the copper strap. Most of the reproduction rags I have seen don't use a fabric near as stiff as the GM part, I think your car may have a completely different feel with a new part.
From your description, sounds like that old part was way past it's service life.
I know the restomod guys use U-joints, more than one in many cases but that means the steering arrangement can't be exactly straight; U-joints are meant to operate at an angle to avoid brinelling.
The rag joint rebuild kits are decent and take just a few minutes to do the job; the LICS products are decent too. In fact they have the ONLY repro that is even close to the original for '63 with the proper 7 layers of fabric.
And, don't forget, the rag joint has the ground strap that transverses the fabric to maintain electrical continuity.
I guess what I'm saying is - just replace the darn thing. If the LICS price is putting you off I have one I've rebuilt I'll sell you for $40 + shipping. Never used as it wouldn't pass NCRS flight judging in a '63...
PM me if you want it, send an email address if you want pictures...
Thanks Frankie that is awful good of you.
Mine was properly restored/rebuilt to "NCRS standards" for 1965 Non Tele. I don't know if the 1963 "hockey puck" is different, but I do see that "correct" rag joints, like those sold by LICS are listed as "1963-1966 Non Tele Column".
The thin copper ribbon/strap for electrical continuity is present in my coupler. Maybe I subject my steering system to undue stress. I have manual steering with the tie rods mounted into the "fast ratio" holes on the steering knuckles. No power steering and very sticky 70 series radial tires.
If you buy the replacement steering joint that comes with 4 (four) nuts and bolts, then you're looking for trouble because those bolts are not shouldered which means that they will loosen over time because they're tightened against the rubber "hockey puck". The safe way to restore a coupler is to cold deform the rivets with an air hammer and anvil using the "correct" rebuild kit which uses the "correct" hockey puck with metal load distributors.
Last edited by 65tripleblack; Mar 11, 2017 at 07:26 PM.
]Have you looked for a nos service part, as it will have the metal impregnated layer of rubber instead of the copper strap.[/U] Most of the reproduction rags I have seen don't use a fabric near as stiff as the GM part, I think your car may have a completely different feel with a new part.
From your description, sounds like that old part was way past it's service life.
Tim,
Are you sure about that? I have never heard this before. NCRS judges usually look for the copper strap/ribbon inside the coupler. I might be wrong.
Joe
I never had to buy one or rebuild kits. for what ever reason on my car and all four dads cars still have there original one. all we did is clean them up and reused them
The repop rag joint I installed on my '67 GTO lasted about 10 years. I replaced it with a used original rag joint out of a '70 I found in a wrecking yard. That was 14 years ago. Still perfect. Newer rubber products are garbage compared to original products made with decent rubber. By all means, run a rag joint.
Tim,
Are you sure about that? I have never heard this before. NCRS judges usually look for the copper strap/ribbon inside the coupler. I might be wrong.
Joe
Joe,
Attached is a picture of the Saginaw service replacement rag joint for 1963-66 non tele. The rubber layer showing the red lines is impregnated with the steel mesh in place of the copper strap. I have read that any time there was a improvement (upgrade) at Saginaw the S/R parts were fitted with the upgrade. It's my understanding the mesh started late sixties early seventies.
I have some NOS 1967-68 rags that you may be able to take apart to use the rubber if the rivets are the same size but then you have the issue of setting the rivets.
Attached is a picture of the Saginaw service replacement rag joint for 1963-66 non tele. The rubber layer showing the red lines is impregnated with the steel mesh in place of the copper strap. I have read that any time there was a improvement (upgrade) at Saginaw the S/R parts were fitted with the upgrade. It's my understanding the mesh started late sixties early seventies.
I have some NOS 1967-68 rags that you may be able to take apart to use the rubber if the rivets are the same size but then you have the issue of setting the rivets.
Tim
Tim,
That explains it, because although the TIM&JG may not specifically state it, I know that the NCRS judges look for the copper strap (at least for my model year and up through 1966) with their little LED flashlights, microscopes, and Geiger counters. How do I know this: Hinck told me so.
LICS advertises new rag joints 1963-1966 "with ground strap", and 1967-up as 2 different parts.
You have a private message.
Joe C
Last edited by 65tripleblack; Mar 13, 2017 at 04:34 PM.
The explanation that some of you have provided makes perfect sense.
So I'm left with either finding an old "hockey puck" in good shape, or using a U-joint.
You might also give Gary Ramadei a call and see what he recommends. He rebuilds a lot of mid-year steering boxes and has purchased many NOS couplers for his own use.
Google the name for contact info, or send him a PM thru the NCRS website.
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Rag Joint Alternative ?
The column should be in a straight line in the stock configuration and these have set screws to the top and bottom! The stock shaft plunges upwards as a safety feature, but the borgeson if an impact occurs will additionally fold or deflect hopefully from driving the steering wheel thru your chest! The action of the u-Joint configuration is meant for positive turning! And they operate in a straight plane on a stock setup! Yes some guys use them to reroute geometry, but that is usually purposely done or out of necessity based on using non-conventional parts and suspensions! These Joint will probably outlast you in a street or normal non-full race application! Probably would replace 4 or 5 rag joints to one borgeson Joint!
