Boyan

You guys are killing me with this matching numbers BS. Those words mean NOTHING, purely up to interpretation (sp?). The OP wants a car. with its original engine and an original stamp pad. Most understand what original is. I say most because some on this forum continue to use ridiculous words to describe original engines and such.....

ghostrider20

Simple

Original = It left the factory with it.

Numbers Matching use to mean original years ago.

rtruman

Tonio

There are plenty of NOM Vettes out there that are great cars and will return you a good ROI a few years down the road. Why obsess over "matching numbers"? The ROI will be very similar/the same.

65hihp

Oh come on Boyan. Snap out of it!
If not for endless discussions of matching numbers, engine stampings, knock-off wheels, matching numbers, type of gas, oil and coolant to use, vin and Trim plates, matching numbers, tires, what's it worth?, matching numbers, value of window stickers, etc. what good would this forum be?
There comes a point when there is just not that much else to talk about.
So, try to relax and let us have our fun. And, what are you doing wasting time here when you could be finishing up your car?

jbrinsfi

And, what are you doing wasting time here when you could be finishing up your car?[/QUOTE]

excellant point..... good morning Don

Boyan

And OP, there are lots of documented original cars with mistakes like upside down stamps. By any chance is the car you are referencing maroon in color?

And fyi, Im headed to work and cant work on my car.

rtruman

Numbers look correct maybe the guy made a mistake Human error

partsman912

True story , back in the early eighties 2 rich guys drove their 1967 Corvettes to the Country Club. The cars were identical ,perfectly restored 427/435HP coupes. Same colors and options , you couldn't tell them apart.

A crowd started to surround these beautiful American Sports Cars and people were asking many questions. Now ,we all know 2 rich guys can't share the limelight at the same time , so after several minutes of attention one of them said "Yeah they are both nice cars but mine has matching numbers...."

And that's how the story began ......

68hemi

I totally disagree. They mean EVERYTHING. They are a tip off to me when I see a car advertised/described as such that it is a car that the seller is unsure of the car having a "born with engine." More and more people have come to understand the difference and you see more and more people that do have known provable "born with engine" cars describing them that way. In fact, if you have no proof of it then you really can't say it is anything other than matching numbers.

This actually makes me think that maybe this forum should have a sticky of "Corvette Definitions" for things like this.

40ZR1

I'm no expert but isn't that a fake VIN tag?
CJ

Boyan

"Born with" more ridiculous words. What about when the car was Re-born or born again???

426 Hemi

And the rivets should be rosettes?

Powershift

What makes you think that??

Larry

68hemi

We don't need to bring religion into this, there is enough arguing as it is.

MikeM

Nothing to do with religion. Born again is everything to do with re-painted, re -upholstered, re-chromed, re-stamped, re-carpeted, re-furbished, re-placed, re-built, none of it original.

emdoller

I've been thinking about this and while I enjoy the debate over numbers matching vs non numbers matching the problem I have, and yes it's been said many times, is in most cases my guess would be engines are restamped in order to increase the price of the car. This unfortunately means those who don't have the ability to tell the difference may get screwed down the line. That's my problem with it.

If that logic is sound, it must mean that having a car with numbers matching engines are worth more money on average otherwise no one would be doing it.

What I also found ridiculous is the last time I went to Barrett Jackson auction it amazed me when car after car they would say "numbers matching" and then they'd have a Z28 cross the line and bring up Jerry McNeish and he'd say "folks this is the real deal". Well what the hell does that mean about the last 3 Z28's that crossed the line with only the auctioneer saying "numbers matching?!? It's a joke.

Ed

MOXIE62

I thought the same thing.

40ZR1

'Cause it don't look like mine! You're a holy-moly NCRS judge, you tell me why it is!
CJ

68hemi

Of course it is done to increase the value of the car. Some will say it is to gain more judging points for NCRS and regardless of what else they say the car will bring more money at sale time with the NCRS awards.

B-J and any other auction are CYA with statements of "numbers matching" and things like Jerry McNeish and he'd say "folks this is the real deal" because those people are the supposed expert "go to" guys for particular cars. You have answered your own question about this.

If a car can be PROVEN to have the "born with" engine it is worth more. If a supposed expert is willing to make a claim (for what that is worth, and some think nothing) about a particular car then many think it is worth more. It is just his opinion based on his experience and research that some people pay for. A car stated as numbers matching can be many things such as stamped correctly, incorrectly, correct date codes lining up with the cars birthday or not. That is why you have to look closely and be armed with the proper information to make your own decision. However, a car that is numbers matching done correctly and has correct casting numbers and date codes is worth more than a car that obviously has a NOM but is worth less than a proven "born with" car. How much more you ask? That is also debatable however I think MOST people you ask will say correct numbers matching is 10% more than NOM and "born with" is worth 10% or MORE than correct matching numbers. This statement will certainly arouse people with other opinions and this is just mine and it is worth what ever anyone else thinks it is at any given time.