Vettrocious

Thanks Jack.

To you, and the rest of the forum users who read this: I don't happen to agree with the other poster's analysis of the functional properties of these headlights. Additionally, I'm not familiar enough with the applicable laws to make any recommendations at all in that regard.

As such, since legal question has been raised, I'd suggest you not take any posters' statements here at their face value, but instead do your own research on the headlights, from both a legal and functional standpoint, before driving with them on a highway.

Thanks,

Mike

Brian VH McHale

Those headlights look DANGEROUS.

Vettrocious

If you are able to make such a statement solely after review of the unbelievably limited pics I posted, without actually inspecting the vehicle or bulbs, you must be just as astute at jumping to conclusions as the previous poster.

426 Hemi

I didn't know they were making these headlights. Thanks for the heads up and for the pics----couple great looking '63s.

Vettrocious

Thanks, I really appreciate your comments...

Brian VH McHale

OK let's try this. They look great but dangerous.

C6_Racer_X

OK. For those interested, I have some time today and I can address the "legality" issue on headlamps.

There are two specifications for headlamps, US DOT (the actual standards are part of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, abbreviated FMVSS), and European (ECE, sometimes referred to as UN or International standards). US DOT compliant lighting (the term is "compliant", not any other term like "approved" or "certified") is nearly mandatory in the United States and allowed in a few other countries where a lot of US manufactured vehicles are sold (Canada and Mexico, for example). European lighting standards are allowed everywhere in the world, including in Canada and Mexico (where either European lighting or US spec lighting is allowed), and is allowed under severely restricted conditions in the USA.

US DOT compliant lighting components are identified by "DOT" markings, along with other markings. A replaceable bulb headlamp assembly that is compliant with US DOT standards will have the letters "DOT" on it, along with the manufactures name and/or trademark, and will also have a bulb designation (9006 or HB4, or 9003 or HB2). There are other marks, but those are the most pertinent. These lamps are legal on public roads in the USA (and in other countries that allow US spec lighting) only when an appropriate, DOT compliant bulb is installed.

US DOT spec headlamp bulbs also have the manufacturers name and/or trade mark, along with the bulb type designation (9006, HB4, 9003, HB2, etc). They also have the voltage and wattage ratings and a few other markings.

For US DOT compliant lighting, there are no government testing or lab testing requirements. The manufacturers marks plus the "DOT" marking, plus a certification letter signed by the manufacturer's/importer's principle on file with the US DOT are the only requirements. Manufacturers (and importers) "self certify" for US DOT compliance. The only time the government gets involved with testing is if there are complaints. If complaints are received, and an investigation reveals non-compliance, there can be civil and criminal penalties (fines and jail time) for the manufacturer, forced recalls and refunds or replacements with known compliant products ordered.

European spec lighting is a little different on the compliance/testing regimen. Each country specifies their own lab testing procedures and samples are submitted for testing.

The markings on European (ECE) spec lighting are a little different. Again, the manufacturer's name and/or trademark are required, along with the bulb designation (H4, H1, etc). There's also a letter "E" and a number in a circle. The number designates which country tested/certified the product as compliant with European standards and regulations. 1 is Germany, 2 is France, 11 is United Kingdom (England), 9 is Spain, and there are others, all the way up to 47 for South Africa, with some vacant/unused numbers in the sequence.

European bulbs have the same types of markings as DOT compliant bulbs, but again with the E and a number in a circle instead of (or in addition to) the DOT mark. The E in the circle and the number designating compliance and the country where the manufacturer submitted bulbs for testing and inspection.

European spec lighting is allowed basically everywhere in the world, but severely restricted in the USA. If you are driving a Canadian registered (Canadian tags) vehicle with ECE (European spec) lighting, you can legally drive anywhere in the USA. There used to be a few states that explicitly allowed ECE lighting on vehicles registered in those states. Those laws have changed, and I know at least one has gone DOT only in recent years. I'm not sure about the others.

While not 100% legal on US registered vehicles, European spec lighting is at least safe, and it doesn't really stand out enough that you'd be pulled over for the equipment violation. Recent changes in US DOT standards make it possible for most low beam headlamps to meet both US DOT standards and European ECE standards. I think at least some of the Hella "E Code" low beam (H4) lights for the 4 round light system on the C2 and C3 corvettes actually has both an "E1" in the circle designation and the DOT marking. The ECE high beam requirements have a direct conflict with USDOT specs, and it's impossible to have one high beam lamp that meets both specs.

Looking closely at the OP's headlamp closeups, I'm pretty sure he's got the AutoPal "E code" or "E mark" headlamp assemblies. Those are ECE certified (tested/certified in Spain). They are decent headlamp assemblies, when used with a ECE certified bulb. I suspect the only illegal and dangerous parts in his setup are the "LED headlight bulbs." There's no way those bulbs have any "E" mark with a number in the circle. Those bulbs aren't ECE certified, and they aren't DOT compliant either. "LED retrofit" bulbs are never certified, and do not perform safely in optics designed for halogen bulbs. Those headlights he has would be much safer, and perform better, allowing the driver to see better and farther, if high quality, high performance H4 bulbs were installed. I would go with Phillips XtremeVision H4's (which I have in two of our vehicles in ECE certified headlamps).

If anyone else is thinking of upgrading, the AutoPal lights aren't bad, and they are inexpensive. The Hella ECE certified headlights are better, but they are certified in Germany (E1 in the circle), and there are at least 3 different part numbers. You need the one designed for installation with the center line of the lights less than 80cm from the road surface. Those will put the high beam in the right place when installed and aimed properly on a Corvette. The other variants put the high beam center much higher, the worst one will have your high beams in the treetops when you switch to high beams. Contact Daniel Stern for the proper part number, and tell him exactly how high your headlights centers are from the road surface so he can get the correct part number for you.

Oh, and H1 ECE certified high beam lamps with good H1 bulbs (not LED toy "retrofits") are a good complement to the ECE low beams. Much better than "General Electric" sealed beams of unknown age or quality. I'd recommend those for the inner lights on a C2 or C3 (probably Cibie/Valeo units, if you can get them).

As for being able to tell the setup in the opening post is dangerous, two pictures show very dangerous characteristics. The first pic of the headlights, with beam patterns from two cars (4 lamps) shown on the wall shows a very dangerous beam pattern from the LED bulbs on the right. That's this picture:


Also, in another picture, you can see the excessive glare light (light outside the main beam) on the wall and ceiling. That would be in this picture:


And, @Vettrocious, if you want a free H4 bulb (just one standard performance H4 bulb, not high output), I'll mail one to you if you take a pic of the beam patterns on the wall with the genuine H4 bulb in the left lamp and the "LED retrofit" you have now in the right lamp, to compare the beam pattern of the same AutoPal lamp with the correct bulb, compared to the "LED retrofit" beam pattern. If you're interested, and willing to post a pic, PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a bulb).

Vettrocious

Just one more thing....

My lamps ARE Autopal, they also are marked with European standard E9.

Go figure. Have a nice day.

C6_Racer_X

OK. So the headlamp assemblies you have are safe, legal on public roads everywhere in the world, though somewhat restricted in the USA (must be on foreign registered/tagged cars to be legal). The AutoPal lights are reasonable ECE headlight assemblies, and they area available at a reasonable price (often under $50 for a pair, compared to $100+ for a pair of Hella's or $200+ for a pair of Cibies if you can find them). I've never heard them called "pony lights," so I was confused a bit by your post.

The only dangerous parts you have in your lighting are the light bulbs in those headlamp assemblies. Those headlamps are certified to deliver a safe, legal beam pattern that looks like this when you shine them on the wall:



The primary features of that pattern are a very sharp cutoff, level on the left side, angled up at about 15 degrees on the right side. Below the cutoff is the brightest part of the beam, and as you go lower (and further from the center), the light gradually gets less bright. In actual use on the road, this results in very even light on the road, starting about 30-40 feet in front of the car and continuing for a few hundred feet. They also illuminate road side signs (on the right) better than US spec lights. They are weak on overhead signs (and that's why the US DOT rejects them for compliance with US standards).

If your low beams don't look like that, you have defective, dangerous and probably illegal bulbs in them. You want a H4 bulb with an "E" and a number in a circle somewhere on the base of the bulb. Any number with the E is fine (E1 is common and the Germans have very stringent testing). Those are tested/certified ECE bulbs and will deliver the proper (safe, legal and most useful) low beam and high beam pattern. A DOT 9003/HB2 bulb would also work, but those are manufacturer/importer certified, and quality can vary a lot with those markings.

Cheap 9003/HB2 bulbs (US DOT compliant H4 bulbs, also safe and legal for those lights) can be had for under $5 a pair. The best bulbs for those headlamp assemblies are the Phillips XtremeVision +130's, and they can be had online for under $30 for a pair. They are bright, precise and will give you the best performance from those Autopal lamp assemblies. The one down side to "high performance" (+130 or _110 or +100) bulbs is that they don't last long. I get a year or so out of a set of Phillips XtremeVision +130s, and got about the same out of the previous generation +110s and Osram +100s. I do a fair amount of night driving, and rain driving with headlights on, but the high performance bulbs don't last anywhere near as long as "standard" bulbs.

Also, be aware that those lights can be (and are in most cases) illegal in the USA. On a Canadian registered car, with Canadian tags, those lights are legal on any road, anywhere in the USA. On a US registered car, with tags from most US states, those lights are not legal, and you can get a ticket for running them (an equipment violation). You won't likely be bothered if you have safe, ECE certified bulbs in them, especially on low beams, but with junky LED bulbs that alter the pattern in a dangerous way and generate high amounts of glare, expect attention from law enforcement. Just be aware that you're in a very dark "gray area," even with certified bulbs, and you're just asking for trouble with uncertified bulbs that alter the beam pattern and generate excessive glare.

Also, if your picture of the beams hitting the wall was of the high beams, that still isn't a legal, safe ECE beam pattern for a high beam. The high beams from those lights will be a relatively small, mostly circular spot, and will be centered in front of the headlamp. That's the pattern that the testing labs in Spain verified to get that E9 in the circle. Your photo shows a beam pattern that is too tall, extending too low for a certified, legal and safe high beam.

fjd

Theres a light in the back of the convertible somewhere? Please tell me where. I just replaced the carpet and underlayment, saw no bulb. Thanks!!

RatDog

Halfway between the rear deck lid hinges.



Take care,
Steve

fjd

Thanks Steve! Now I can go hunting for it.

Best
Frank

fjd

Do you have any idea what that is called and or the bulb, if I still have the wiring in place? Thanks again.

RatDog

Someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s just called a courtesy light. As you probably already know, your car has two more, one for each footwell.

As I recall, all three use the same bulb.

Take care,
Steve

fjd

Thanks Steve. Now I have to get on my back in there and see if I have this. Hmmmm. If I do the bulb is dead at the very least. I suspect I will find no wire at all.

Best
Frank

RatDog

My back would demand I use a mirror instead <LOL>.

Take care,
Steve

Oaker57

Don't forget the one under the rear deck then....!!

65Conv/Vette

Hi Mike: Do the rear brake light plug in LED light conversion kits all require you to buy a LED resistance for both sides to make them work properly?
Thanks,
John

kts1962

I used the LED equivalents from “Superbright LED” and did Not require any additional resistors
https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehicle


I Did replace the ‘Flasher’ under the dash with one for LED (less electrical load) because I also did LED turn signals…. Remember, Polarity is required when replacing the Flasher- many offer an adapter to reverse the polarity if required.