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Newbie with shifting problem

Old 05-19-2018, 10:58 AM
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rockingchairmotors
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Default Newbie with shifting problem

Hello all,
My name is Jeff and I live in Nazareth PA. I just bought a 1963 C2 convertible. Its a driver but I the car has a linkage or shifting problem. I am not familiar with corvettes at all but I am a somewhat competent mechanic.
I have a tremendous about of play in my shifter linkage. So much so I cannot get the car into 3rd gear. I did take it to a mechanic, we bought a new shifter mechanism and linkage parts. He put them in, and the car is worse than it was before. I do not want to take it back to him. Is this a problem I can solve myself or should I take it to someone that knows these transmissions?
If I should take it to someone, can anyone give me recommendations for someone competent in the Lehigh Valley PA area that can help me?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:42 PM
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Yes you can fix this yourself if you have the opportunity to get the car up and safety supported.

HONESTLY.. Because I own a Corvette shop...Take it back to him and let him know it is not right. I know you do not want to do that. But he got PAID to do a job. And it seems the job was not done correctly or something went wrong and these new parts are defective...which is not his fault. . Give him a chance to correct it. If you choose to do this and it keeps going bad time and time again..then get your money back from him a THEN find someone.....OR...fix it yourself or pay someone else to do it again.

What is wrong with this new shifter and linkage?

Is the new shifter a HURST shifter or a reproduction of the original???

When you are in neutral...is it an even and smooth 'neutral' gate???

Have you even taken a look a the new shifter and linkage that was installed and sse if something is wrong??

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Old 05-19-2018, 01:16 PM
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Welcome to the Forum.

Was the shifter and linkage installed, a reproduction stock one, or an aftermarket Hurst? Also, do you know what transmission is in the car? 63's initially came with Borg-Warner T-10's, but cars built after May 1st, came with Muncie transmissions.

There's a "gauge block" available to properly adjust the 63 linkage. Do you know if your mechanic used one to adjust the linkage, or is he even familiar with 63 linkage? Also, though the shifters are the same, the T-10 used different linkage than the Muncie. Did your mechanic get the proper linkage, for your transmission?

I don't know of any shops I can recommend in the Lehigh Valley, but you could try Glen at Hillside Corvette in Bridgewater NJ. He's probably about an hour away, just off the intersection of Routes 22 and 287. His shop number is 732-469-0808.

I have a customer in Bethlehem who has a collection of over 20 Corvettes, as well as Camaros and some other cars. He has a restorer who works for him full time, restoring and maintaining his cars. I can talk to his restorer Monday, to see if he knows anyone reliable in the area, or he may even be able to look at it himself. If you PM me your phone number or email, I'll let you know what he says me on Monday.
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:19 PM
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You have a lot of slop in the shifter but you don't say if it's fore/aft or side/side. Every gear? Some gears?

If the new shifter acts like the old, I might suspect inop detents on the side cover.




I've seen the pin come out of the side cover. I've seen one of the arms broken.

Last edited by MikeM; 05-19-2018 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:43 AM
  #5  
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Mike might be on to something.....I thought the earliest Muncies had that center pin in the side cover just peened over and the shfiter "rooster combs" could fall into the transmission so they then went with the "C" clip to secure the pin...
Or it may have been an old wive's tale - not sure...

If that's the problem its an easy fix.... In fact, you can get an entire much improved side cover with roller bearings in the openings where the shifter shafts come through that will last a lifetime. Which is what I did - but - the new cover won't have the original casting numbers if you care (NCRS doesn't judge them).

You can tell if the tranny is a Muncie or Borg Warner by the number of bolts in the side cover; BW has 9, a Muncie has 7 -- as shown in the picture.

As to taking it back to the original mechanic - that's a personal call. I tend not to do so. The first reaction by many is to dive even deeper into an area they have little skill in and I don't want them learning on my car.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Mike might be on to something.....I thought the earliest Muncies had that center pin in the side cover just peened over and the shfiter "rooster combs" could fall into the transmission so they then went with the "C" clip to secure the pin...
Or it may have been an old wive's tale - not sure...
The pin gets loose and/or falls in the transmission. Don.t know about the detent arms.

Not a tale.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:59 AM
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The OTHER issue is that, depending on the transmissions's shifting plates that the rod goes into (if somebody has messed around with them) AND the type of shifter purchased....there are metal spacers that have to go into the rod holes to make them work.. I can't imagine a competent mechanic would forget them but as a wild card it would sure mess up shifting...

These adapters allow later shifters (69 and later) to work with early Muncies with slotted holes in the shifter plates.
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Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 05-20-2018 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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The whole thing here is that if it was worse than before...why did you take it from the mechanic???

The only reason I mention taking it back to the person who did it is that IF you don't. YOU are the part of a growing problem in people trying to find competent mechanics that can do the work. And where person gets screwed,...they complain about it.

Letting a person who did a half @ss repair on your car and get away with it is telling them that they can just keep on doing what they are doing due to no one has the [email protected] to confront them about it.

SO work hard for your money and spend it how you wish. And for some of you, that writing on your back says 'WELCOME'. Because it is a door mat. Do not be anyone's doormat. Or be one....I do not care.

I am a good mechanic..and guys like this that do **** poor work just tarnish my profession and ticks me off when they get away with it. We will never know if this mechanic was good or unqualified...due to he gets no chance to correct this problem.

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Old 05-20-2018, 05:13 PM
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There are unintentional mistakes that get by and sometimes new parts that fail.....but IMO that shifter should not have left the mechanic's driveway worse than it arrived...

I think we can all agree on that...
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:26 PM
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Without knowing further details, I'd agree that rockingchairmotors has given a very vague description of details of his problem and hasn't indicated if his "mechanic" does this stuff for a living or if he even charged him for working on his car.

Maybe his mechanic told him he had no idea what was wrong and no charge?

I see he has peeped back in once since his post with no response.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Without knowing further details, I'd agree that rockingchairmotors has given a very vague description of details of his problem and hasn't indicated if his "mechanic" does this stuff for a living or if he even charged him for working on his car.

Maybe his mechanic told him he had no idea what was wrong and no charge?

I see he has peeped back in once since his post with no response.
and a very good observation.

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Old 05-21-2018, 06:05 PM
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rockingchairmotors
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Thanks for all of the input and I apologize for not responding sooner. Busy weekend.

A few answers to some questions. Trans is a borg-warner T-10.

Mechanic that did the work is a one man show. I had a gut instinct not to take the car there but I did. My bad. I don't feel comfortable taking it back. I thought he knew what he was doing but it was there for 7 weeks and I get back junk. So its not going back to him.

Now to the problem. The shifter feels fine left to right. There seems to be an excessive amount of play (movement) from fore to aft. Can this be adjusted by the linkage? (I have attached pictures of the old and new shifter linkage) or is this something where the side cover comes off. missing spring


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Old 05-21-2018, 08:20 PM
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Don't know. I can't see your pictures.

Just little boxes with a swatch of blue through them.

Rockingchairmotors is an interesting web site.

Last edited by MikeM; 05-21-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rockingchairmotors View Post
Thanks for all of the input and I apologize for not responding sooner. Busy weekend.

A few answers to some questions. Trans is a borg-warner T-10.

Mechanic that did the work is a one man show. I had a gut instinct not to take the car there but I did. My bad. I don't feel comfortable taking it back. I thought he knew what he was doing but it was there for 7 weeks and I get back junk. So its not going back to him.

Now to the problem. The shifter feels fine left to right. There seems to be an excessive amount of play (movement) from fore to aft. Can this be adjusted by the linkage? (I have attached pictures of the old and new shifter linkage) or is this something where the side cover comes off. missing spring



Simply put, you need to shinny under the car and watch/feel/listen what the transmission is doing as the gear shift is moved more/aft.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:47 PM
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rockingchairmotors
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Mike
pictures seem to work for me but thank you for posting them if you did.

My question: How do I lessen the distance of the fore and aft shift? By the linkage? Or do I need to open the side plate and do adjustment there?
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:17 PM
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You all might be totally overthinking this. The likelihood is that the Newbie is used to new cars and how they shift. These old cars take some getting use to in that area. They aren't precise by a long shot and take some getting used to. I think the word is sloppy.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:57 PM
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Welcome to the forum Rockingchairmotors......

I live right here in Palmer Twp, were probably 15 min apart. I can recommend Pickels Garage on 25th St. directly across from the Home Depot. He is an old school mechanic, and knows what he's doing on these old cars. He's the only one that I let work on my 64 if I can't do it myself, in fact he even lets me come in and use his lifts and other things that I just don't have. Give him a call at 610.250.9261.....

If I can be of any help with your project, or you want to see how anything goes together, feel free to stop by anytime and look at my car. I'm no expert, but have learned a lot right here on the forum while I was restoring my car.

PM me and I will give you my contact info....

Good luck with your project, and I look forward to seeing your 63...
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerrmudgeon View Post
You all might be totally overthinking this. The likelihood is that the Newbie is used to new cars and how they shift. These old cars take some getting use to in that area. They aren't precise by a long shot and take some getting used to. I think the word is sloppy.
I don't think they are so imprecise as to cause them not to go into a gear when adjusted correctly. Mine is a C1, but is a T-10 and his shifter looks similar. I just now went out to the garage and made this video:


Last edited by 65GGvert; 05-22-2018 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rockingchairmotors View Post
My question: How do I lessen the distance of the fore and aft shift? By the linkage? Or do I need to open the side plate and do adjustment there?
The bracket that is bolted to the side of your transmission at the shifting points has one hole in it that allows this bracket to be bolted to the side of the transmission.

The other hole or holes in this bracket is where your shifter linkage is bolted or clipped to.

IF you are looking for a shorter throw in your shifter when changing gears...The hole that your shifter linkage is attached to in the bracket that is attached to the side of your transmission needs to be in the hole closest to the end of the bracket where it is attached to the pivot point on your transmission.

The CLOSER the shifter linkage is to the PIVOT point of the bracket is what effects the throw.

IF the brackets that get bolted to the side of the transmission DO NOT have the option of where you can place the shifter linkage. Then it is what it is or you have to have new holes put in them to shorten the throw.

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Old 05-22-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 65GGvert View Post
I don't think they are so imprecise as to cause them not to go into a gear when adjusted correctly. Mine is a C1, but is a T-10 and his shifter looks similar:

https://youtu.be/gwUokMI1KlY
Great video from a guy who KNOWS how to shift that shifter. He knows to move it to the right for third for example. My Honda for example is like a Hurst, you just push it forward from second and it springs over into third. No pushing to the right through the gate etc.
I'm guessing the previous owner had no problems shifting that car.
My 66 for example.....the P.O. took me for a test ride and flogged the crap out of it never missed a beat. When I drove it home I couldn't find the gears for a while until I got used to the vague feel of it. That's all I'm saying.....they're different.
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