[C2] Steering Alignment.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 101
From: Riverhead New York
Steering Alignment.
Hello All, Yesterday I had my Four Wheel alignment done on a Hunter Alignment Rack. Made a great difference in every aspect of the cars drivability. The only issue that has me confused is the steering doesn't center after a turn. It's a PS car, OEM, with Radials 215/70x15", and really isn't too much of an issue but does bother me. I'd like a few comments. BTW, I told the Technician I wanted at least 1.5 Degree or more on the Caster as per JohnZ Thread. Thanks, Al W.
Last edited by 67vetteal; Aug 10, 2018 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Adding photo
Team Owner
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From: Nearby Mayberry in NC
Crowd Plow For Now
There is a way to losen the tension on the steering box.... need a wrench and big screwdriver.
Here is a video with a jeep for general concept and if ya search deeper I’m sure ya can find a C2 out there
Here is a video with a jeep for general concept and if ya search deeper I’m sure ya can find a C2 out there
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
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Army
There is a way to losen the tension on the steering box.... need a wrench and big screwdriver.
Here is a video with a jeep for general concept and if ya search deeper I’m sure ya can find a C2 out there
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXQvVNg6vI
Here is a video with a jeep for general concept and if ya search deeper I’m sure ya can find a C2 out there
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXQvVNg6vI
The correct adjustment procedure is in all the shop manuals and involves a gauge and disconnecting the Pitman arm IIRC (I haven't done it in a while). Not to say you can't get some benefit with this procedure, but its way easy to go overboard and ruin a good steering box...
Race Director
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From: Central Arkansas
Is the alignment picture the final settings? If so, you're right - you do need more caster. I think I would give up some of the neg camber to get more caster if necessary. What did the technician say about dialing in more caster? Was that all he could get out of it? Also, what did he say about the rear toe? I don't remember what the rear toe spec is in degrees but it seems to be out of spec and a bit more rear toe in than needed.
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If that is your finished alignment, you didn’t get what you asked for.
Does the steering wheel just stay where you put it when you take your hands off the wheel and are traveling forward? You’re pretty light on the caster based on the display.
Does the steering wheel just stay where you put it when you take your hands off the wheel and are traveling forward? You’re pretty light on the caster based on the display.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Connecticut, USA
I would get the alignment correct, if they start playing with the box and don't correctly set it then your high lash will be off center and you will wear out the center tooth in short order. Seen it too many times with these boxes.
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Pro
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From: Lower Jefferson
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Need more caster with radials. Don't mess with the steering box unless it's on the bench.
https://tech.corvettecentral.com/201...ignment-specs/
I run 4.0 degrees of caster. With 255-40-17. Helps center the wheel coming out of a turn.
https://tech.corvettecentral.com/201...ignment-specs/
I run 4.0 degrees of caster. With 255-40-17. Helps center the wheel coming out of a turn.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Maine
Hello All, Yesterday I had my Four Wheel alignment done on a Hunter Alignment Rack. Made a great difference in every aspect of the cars drivability. The only issue that has me confused is the steering doesn't center after a turn. It's a PS car, OEM, with Radials 215/70x15", and really isn't too much of an issue but does bother me. I'd like a few comments. BTW, I told the Technician I wanted at least 1.5 Degree or more on the Caster as per JohnZ Thread. Thanks, Al W.
Hi , with stock A arms you will be limited to 1* or less of castor. The result is the car goes where you steer it. Modern cars with 4 -6 * of castor want to return to center and actually fight you from turning. No so with our stock C-2s, especially with power steering. You need offset A arm shafts to get more castor
jack
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From: Lower Jefferson
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I'm running stock control arms and have 4 degrees of caster. Going for more negative camber next time I go to the alignment shop
Last edited by Saddletan; Aug 10, 2018 at 05:49 PM.
Race Director
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From: Fresno California
I hope that's not the final alignment printout. If it were my car, I'd want to have the same caster on the pass side (1 degree) even though it's in the green simply for road crown. I also would limit the toe to about 1/4 of what it currently is out front, and out back, get the toe as close to 0 as possible. The way it is now, your rear tires are pointed too far inward. Not good.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Riverhead New York
Thanks to all of these informative reply's. I will report back with the end result of what happens. Al W.. So, I called the shop and the owner is away till Thursday. But, the fella that did the alignment answered the phone and I engaged him politely and we had a good exchange of information. Front: He remembered my requesting a minimum of 1.5 degrees Caster. He claimed he couldn't get anymore Caster because he ran out of available shim adjustment. False! Both sides have shims available forward stud and rear stud. Am I right? We talked further. I told him the rear Toe In was too far in and did he change it? He said he never touched it and claimed it would take three or more hours to do! I said are the rear Trailing Arm shims slotted or captured? He had no idea. Argh! The rear negative camber is also another issue. At this point I asked if he punched into the Hunter Alignment Machine my supplied specifications. He said "No". Sooooo, I decided I had heard enough and Thanked him for his time and that I would take it up with the owner. This once again demonstrates why I hate to have other people work for me. Please comment if you read this far. Al W.
Last edited by 67vetteal; Aug 11, 2018 at 10:45 AM.
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
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Hello All, Yesterday I had my Four Wheel alignment done on a Hunter Alignment Rack. Made a great difference in every aspect of the cars drivability. The only issue that has me confused is the steering doesn't center after a turn. It's a PS car, OEM, with Radials 215/70x15", and really isn't too much of an issue but does bother me. I'd like a few comments. BTW, I told the Technician I wanted at least 1.5 Degree or more on the Caster as per JohnZ Thread. Thanks, Al W.
Generally I aim for around +0.10 front toe and something similar on the rear. If the rear toe hasn't been set in as long time it will most likely be difficult to get the shims out. How much that costs depends on the shop.
What the younger guys doing alignments don't realize when they are looking up specs is the factory specs for cars made 40 plus years ago were for bias ply tires. Not radials.
My recommendation for specs is around 0 camber front and rear, 0.10 toe front and rear and as much caster as you can get with the right side about .5 degrees higher for road crown.
I also have used longer bolts for the upper control arm to add more shims if needed. Just make sure they are grade 8.
Nick
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,078
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From: Riverhead New York
25 years experience here doing alignments. First off all there is way too much toe front and rear. A half degree front toe with radials will wear them fairly quick. Over a degree rear toe is also going to be hard on tires.
Generally I aim for around +0.10 front toe and something similar on the rear. If the rear toe hasn't been set in as long time it will most likely be difficult to get the shims out. How much that costs depends on the shop.
What the younger guys doing alignments don't realize when they are looking up specs is the factory specs for cars made 40 plus years ago were for bias ply tires. Not radials.
My recommendation for specs is around 0 camber front and rear, 0.10 toe front and rear and as much caster as you can get with the right side about .5 degrees higher for road crown.
I also have used longer bolts for the upper control arm to add more shims if needed. Just make sure they are grade 8.
Nick
Generally I aim for around +0.10 front toe and something similar on the rear. If the rear toe hasn't been set in as long time it will most likely be difficult to get the shims out. How much that costs depends on the shop.
What the younger guys doing alignments don't realize when they are looking up specs is the factory specs for cars made 40 plus years ago were for bias ply tires. Not radials.
My recommendation for specs is around 0 camber front and rear, 0.10 toe front and rear and as much caster as you can get with the right side about .5 degrees higher for road crown.
I also have used longer bolts for the upper control arm to add more shims if needed. Just make sure they are grade 8.
Nick
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Thanks to all of these informative reply's. I will report back with the end result of what happens. Al W.. So, I called the shop and the owner is away till Thursday. But, the fella that did the alignment answered the phone and I engaged him politely and we had a good exchange of information. Front: He remembered my requesting a minimum of 1.5 degrees Caster. He claimed he couldn't get anymore Caster because he ran out of available shim adjustment. False! Both sides have shims available forward stud and rear stud. Am I right? We talked further. I told him the rear Toe In was too far in and did he change it? He said he never touched it and claimed it would take three or more hours to do! I said are the rear Trailing Arm shims slotted or captured? He had no idea. Argh! The rear negative camber is also another issue. At this point I asked if he punched into the Hunter Alignment Machine my supplied specifications. He said "No". Sooooo, I decided I had heard enough and Thanked him for his time and that I would take it up with the owner. This once again demonstrates why I hate to have other people work for me. Please comment if you read this far. Al W.
Last edited by Factoid; Aug 12, 2018 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Crappy spelling
Melting Slicks
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From: merritt island fl
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From: Central Arkansas
Unless the owner comes up with another Tech to do your alignment I think you need to find another shop and try to get your money back. That guy did nothing for you which is a common problem with older cars and too many of these shops.
A friend recently got ripped off for over $400 for an alignment of a newly-reassembled 69 Road Runner by a shop run by a supposed friend of his. They claimed one of the upper a-arm camber bolts was stripped out and had to be replaced - and from a picture of it, it was stripped pretty badly. He raised hell with them but got no where. As far as I know they got it aligned finally but charged him 3 hrs labor at $100/hr "team labor rate" to replace a bolt I strongly suspect they stripped out.
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
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Ask around your area and see who is best recommended. Not every shop is qualified to do alignment on older cars. Or any car for that matter. The guy running the machine is more critical than having the latest equipment. Where are you located?
Nick
Nick