NCRS. Why do these four little letters evoke such emotion among the Corvette community.







I have been a member since 1985 (Member #9316) and I have been both up and down within NCRS.

To the up: I was the Judging Chairman for the now defunct Tennessee Valley Chapter, I actually got to judge the yellow 1969 ZL-1 Corvette couple (owned at that time by Ed Mueller), I was instrumental in helping NCRS move into the 1973 to 1977 judging arena, and I have met and still maintain friendships with some of the best people on the planet.

To the down: I was at one time "invited" to quit NCRS by both the President of NCRS and the National Judging Chairman of NCRS (both invitations occurred withing a two month period), to this day (about 15 years after the fact) a former officer of NCRS will not talk to me about anything, when he hears my name he walks off, and I have met some of the biggest a-holes ever within the Corvette community.

My experience with NCRS is absolutely more positive than negative, and I thoroughly enjoy participating in various NCRS activities. I just completed my involvement / assistance in the development of the latest version of the 1973-1974 NCRS Judging Manual. The team lead was kind enough to commission a "challenge coin" for the team members (see pictures). I still have the original artwork that was commissioned by the then 1973-1974 team lead on the 1st revision of the same manual. I think I need to put them both together in a frame and hang it somewhere appropriate.

NCRS may not be for everybody, but the nice thing about NCRS (one of the many nice things) is that you can decide for yourself what your level of participation will be.

And of course, without NCRS and the way they handled (miss-handled) the non technical NCRS forum when NCRS first joined the online community, there would not now be a Vetteheads Corvette forum / community. And these guys and gals are absolutely the best of the best in so many ways.

 

Welcome to the forum & I think that the 1957 is one of my top 3 Corvette body styles, great choice of cars!

 

I echo and agree with most of what Ed McComas, above, has said. I've been an NCRS member since 78. And from the beginning, I got a bad taste in my mouth---------------but I stuck it out. The 1981 NCRS Natl meet in St Louis was my most memorable experience with all the horses rearends in the NCRS community. Since then, I have always made it one of my missions in life to be a thorn in their side. Like Ed, SOME do not even speak to me-----------------------and I understand why------------------------I'll continue to be an irritation to them.
Over 30yrs ago, and still to this day, I have always advocated that NCRS should recognize and acknowledge that a Corvette is a Corvette is a Corvette---------------------no matter whether it is pure bone stock right out of the back door of St Louis, or if it has been "personalized" by the owner. DAMN IT, IT'S STILL A CORVETTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes, there is now a place within NCRS for non-perfect, non-numbers matching versions of the Corvette, but DAMN, it has taken NCRS waaaaaaaaaaaaay to long to get their head out of their rear and see the light!!!!

Now, with all of that said, can someone on this forum please tell me what type of a car this is?

 

I'll give you two bonus points for having the correct year hubcaps on it. I know it's a '56. Is it a Bel Air?

 

Not quite, But my whole point is that everyone (at least most everyone) recognizes that it (as well as others that are personalized) is a Corvette. But in the past, the NCRS community refused to recognize a personalized Corvette if it was not pure bone stock. That philosophy turned off and turned away a lot of people and cost them a lot of memberships. Now that NCRS has FINALLY come around to accepting (well, sorta) a level of personalization, it's a little too late for many.
I almost never attend any NCRS events (I do go the the Okla chapter meetings when I can). Those folks are not at all keen on an airbox, FI 56 with HD brakes and suspension. BUT OH YA, Chevrolet did that to four 56 Corvettes for the 1956 Sebring race (except for FI)-----------------------and that was OK. And then they modified some more 56 Corvettes into SR2s-------------------and that was OK! Would you call that a double standard????

 

1970 Chevelle SS Convt!

I think much of this boils down to the enthusiasm and passion for a single mark that many have. I do not share the same passion as many NCRS persons do and honestly would not have the time or ambition to gain their knowledge. I am glad some do and that others can benefit. I am a car enthusiast who just happens to have a couple Corvettes. As time and finances permit I hope to add other brands to my small collection especially one from Stuttgart. As I said previously there always seems to be "that guy". I do my best to be polite but sometimes I do need to espouse my "don't give a ****" attitude. Because, I truly don't care that adding the NCRS stamp of approval will add to the value of the car. I am not in the hobby for adding value to the car or ribbons to the mantle. I am in it because I like the cars and most of the people you meet. I have fun when I get the thumbs up and enjoy the corvette wave with fellow enthusiast. I actually let kids and anyone else who is at a show get in the car and tale pics. Pretty sure those folks could care less if my radiator hose clamp is not turned at the proper degree.

 

These last posts really gets to the core of what I was asking. I’ve explained that for me personally, reproducing a bone stock, mass produced car is not my interest. While I completely respect those who want to do this, I would like to allow myself the latitude to personalize my classic Corvette within the confines of being correct to the time period it was sold. I would love to tap the wealth of knowledge and the common love of brand in the NRCS community but I have no interest in being “judged” for viewing the world a bit differently. I wanted to know what kind of reception I might receive from the NRCS community; it sounds as if it would be mixed at best.

One thing I have quickly learned is that the community on this forum is simply outstanding. I truly appreciate all the help and encouragement I have received as I work thru my Corvette learning curve! Thank you!

 

And you are exactly, 100% correct. In past years, the "old guard" within NCRS was (at the least) offensive to many Corvette owners (or potential owners). In recent years (again, finally), the "purist or nothing" philosophy has changed-----------I will admit for the better. But there are still those members who do not, and never will, see the light.

 

Overall a great organization. They've done a fabulous job - nothing is perfect in life anyway. The comment about being "offensive" applies everywhere in life. I've been bringing my cars since th 80's and never had anything but minor problems here and there. I can tell you about plenty of "offensive", and even obnoxious, car owners - just ask me how I know.

Anyone knows, or certainly should know, that in any endeavor in life, including within families, you are always going to find bad apples in the barrel. It appears, from the way you worded your question, that you have already arrived at a conclusion. Typical these days. Why did you ask the question, other than to substantiate a pre-conceived conclusion ?
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The amount of technical and historical information, rare parts sources, etc., that I have gotten over the decades has been invaluable, never mind the contacts and friendships that developed. I know plenty of car owners, of all makes, that would never consider bringing their car to a judging.
They simply cannot handle it. That's the way it is in life.

Lastly, assuming that I was incorrect and you do not have a pre-conceived notion, be very, very careful as what you take away from this potentially dangerous discussion. People with their own narrow axe to grind are typically unable and/or are unwilling generally to give you the full story as they have a need to tailor their story to support their opinion.

I was proud to have one of my cars in the second "NCRS Museum" display that was in a store front, long before today's building was built.

 

While I agree in principal, I would take issue with stating that those of us who choose not to modify our cars have not , and never will, "see the light". That implies that only your choice is the "correct" one . . . and I'm pretty sure that is not what you meant to say. We ALL ought to agree that there is room for all types and styles of Corvettes in this great hobby of ours. The NCRS (of which I am a member) has slowly started to understand this. Other Corvette organizations have already done so. My 1962 is the dreaded (by some) completely stock, numbers-matching car as GM built it. No car - NO car - is a 100% stock original unless it has the tires, battery, belts and hoses it was delivered with (and then it would be completely unsafe or reliable to operate). Yes, you can replace "maintenance items" with those of the proper factory original types, and that's what I have done with the '62 . . . except for the tires, which I have replaced with radials because I actually drive it as much as I can and they make It handle better, in addition to being safer. And guess what? I have no issue at all with resto-mods or "kustom" Corvettes - or anything in between - even though they are not my cup of tea. I can certainly appreciate the vision and craftsmanship that go into them.

I also own a C7 convertible, and that is completely unmodified as well - but only because it is one of the 550 Premiere Edition convertibles produced in 2014, and I intend to keep it intact as GM built it. My previous C6 convertible, which I bought new in 2007 and drove for ten completely trouble-free years, was modified, personalized, and faster than hell - and also a lot of fun. Room for all, my friends. Room for all.

 

Unfortunately for many, the club was not conceived just for Corvette enthusiasts, It was conceived for Corvette enthusiasts that idolized production line correct (looking) examples.

In my experience, too many of the ones that were "in charge" were used to being in that function. So, between the "uppity bunch" that were the shakers and movers and the snubbing of less than perfect production line examples, many, many were turned off to the idea of joining and remain so to this day.

Bad move because the difference in membership ships between what was and what could have been is likely vastly different. Too late now as I don't see much interest in restoring or even preserving old Corvettes past the chrome bumper days. Yeah, I know there's some. Doesn't seem to be much where I stand.

The good side of this is, it has caused many, many replacement parts to be available for today's Corvette owners. Not giving sole credit to the the club for this as many, many vintage brand cars other than Corvette have thousands and thousands of parts available to them as well.

 

If you go into the club seeking conflict and negative interactions because you have set ideas about "how NCRS people are", you will find what you're looking for. If however you go with an open mind looking to make lifetime friendships with others who love corvettes, any and all corvettes, you will find that. There are such members in abundance in the club. There are many members who never have cars judged, and are not involved as judges, and yet they come out to meets to watch the spectacle and socialize with the friends who are involved with judging activities. Members own every type of corvette from pristine restored examples to bone stock unrestored cars, to every weekend drivers, to modifieds to restomods, etc etc. Off-load your preconceived ideas and come out and give the club a look.

 

I clearly did have a pre-conceived notion (or concern) or I would not have asked the question. I have spoken to a few people with a negative view of the NRCS and have read a some posts that led me to believe that the organization might not be as welcoming to those with a approach (i.e. me). However, I recently had an email conversation with a totally delightful woman from the NRCS which made me question my assumptions. I do not have the experience that the members of this forum possess and thought it best to simply ask. While I did not mean to stumble into a hornets nest or initiate a potentially dangerous discussion, I have found the comments to be thoughtful and civil all around.

 

You raise a serious point. What is the proper clocking of the radiator hose clamp??

 

Were they all installed the same way at the factory.......

 

I have been a member of the NCRS since early 1985. I have either Top Flighted, PV'd, or Duntoved 3 midyears including BG and the Triple Crown. I left the organization around 2003. The "politics" and bias was more than I could stand. Certain owners cars were always "better and more correct" regardless of your time, effort, knowledge, and expense to prepare your car for judging. My main concern was the judges "judging" outside of the printed JG for that year. Upon my complaint that my car's infraction was not addressed in print form, the answer was "because I know it to be true". My reply was to "put all the 67 judges in a room every year or two and rewrite the JG if they are going to be allowed to judge our cars". Think about the increased revenue to the org by selling updated JG's at $50+ each. I dropped my membership.
Fast forward to 2018. I bought my current 67 coupe. I decided to rejoin and try a Regional meet in TX last Fall. It was a TOTALLY different experience and everyone was extremely friendly and helpful. I was pleasantly surprised with the "new" attitude. The majority of participants were still "aging" but I did see some younger folks there. All of the judges were courteous and took the time to explain each point deduction and even offered advice on how to correct it. I'm glad I gave the NCRS another chance, and I plan on taking this car up to the Duntov award if I can. I no longer "dread" the politics or hassle that I feel used to permeate the org.

Change is good and I think the benefits of the yearly membership fee is money well spent. I've bought several items from the bi-monthly Driveline for sale ads.
If you go into the org (especially the judging) with a open mind of "I'm here to learn and make my car better", you will benefit and have an enjoyable experience. Knowledge is king but you have to be willing to accept it without malice or ill will. Sorry for the "soapbox".

 

I have ZERO issues with the above reply, and I ESPECIALLY agree with all of the comments I included.
Things have changed for the better-------------------but again, I say, too late for many folks from the past. Too bad.
I have had the 56 judged in past years (with ZERO preconceived notions)-----------KNOWING FULL WELL THAT IT WOULD NOT EVEN 3rd FLIGHT!!!! And I had no problem with that, I simply wanted to know where it would fall within the judging ranks. These were times when the cream of the horses rearends rose to the top. The attitude was verbalized "Why the hell did he even enter that car in judging?" Back then it was a 2x4 carb, NOM 327 and Muncie with std brakes/suspension. Today, with even more additional upgrades (400/FI/airbox/HD brakes and susp), it would struggle to fit into Sportsman.
A preconceived notion DID NOT, repeat, DID NOT put a bad taste in my mouth-------------------------it was elitist NCRS members themselves that did that!!!!!
Thus, I maintain my membership just to be the devil's advocate and a be thorn in their side. Sooooooooooooooo, that raises the question, "Am I a vindictive person?" I can be if I feel there is a need for it.

 

I have a better car for the regional judging experience - I studied up before the event and corrected the things I could in the time I had. I missed several things just from not knowing about them; e.g. 63 cars have metal exhaust shields behind the rear valence and there are little clips in a coupe that hold the interior quarter panels to the top halo, the little metal sleeves that go inside the front lower bumper brackets around the bolts to keep from distorting the brackets and a bunch of other small items (all fixed now)...

The judges were courteous and explained everything in detail - now the team lead - that's a subject for another time..

I've never said anything different. The car took a 93% Second Flight in the regional (my first time ever having a car judged) and that was pretty good considering the "rush job" getting it ready and the fact it had Vintage Air A/C....and shiny paint in the door jambs.

But, I did it once and I'm done....the car has the LED lights back in it, a gutted and updated stock radio and other mods to make it a good driver - which is all I really want at this point...

Still learning though - last month I found out 63s have pinch welt strips on the front of the seat tracks - I had only one (also fixed now)...

 

Were you told the pinch welt pieces were all black or that they were color keyed to the interior color?

 

All black and Willcox sells them - I DID have one original (that I never noticed before) and it was black.