I've been an NCRS member for 14 years and I restored my "Numbers Matching" 64 L76 using the "Judging Guide" as a reference. But I don't give a damn about flight judging. I knowingly built my ride with deviations from stock because I prefer to drive the car. So safety, reliability and drivability issues are concessions to it's originally. It's all bolt on stuff so I could return it to the way it was when it left St Louis - but it wouldn't be very safe or much fun to drive. Besides, do most visitors at car shows really care whether my wiper inserts have bumps on them or not? I think not.

 

I care, they do, and I drive mine too. With origie drive train. It drives just fine the way it was built (except for radials) including with the silly bumpy wiper inserts.

 

this obviously will take some digging. May depend on what day, who was on the line, did the wife pack pb&j or bologna? Lots to consider but it will **** me off if it cost me points because my car was built on a Tuesday and Fred was mad at his wife because he hates pb&j so he was not giving a crap at the time and NO ONE at that factory had enough sense to document this highly important issue!

 

I have been reading since my post. I don't get it? Why do a couple of you keep saying modified or non original corvettes are not recognized and banned from NCRS in the earlier years? That is 95% of the cars that are owned by members of NCRS. It is not that any other Corvette is overlooked, but it is not the emphasis of it's judging standards. Just like Bloomington Gold, the idea is to get as close to original as possible. NCCC, ISCA,etc. are all judged for show cars towards pretty, our standards are towards factory correctness.

There has been for years the Sportsman Class and now the modified class. It is basically for the show and shine cars and yes you get a participation award.. Show cars were just not the emphasis. But I will be the first to tell you, they almost always trumped the judged cars at an event because they always looked so nice. Especially for the spectators to an event. But again, they were just not the judging emphasis, but appreciated in their own right.

The challenge in getting a Top Flight is making the car fit the guidelines per the publications. IT IS NOT EASY. I have done it, was one of the most frustration, nerve wracking, expensive and without a doubt the most proud moments of my Corvette history. The challenge was in finding everything to make it correct. That is the Challenge! I have had NUMEROUS show cars over the years, quite honestly that was no where's near as difficult as bringing the car to Top Flight. But the trophy's did feel just as good...

Every organization, the more you get involved, the more politics you will see and become involved in. Finding the balance to be able to have fun, learn and making things move forward is often very difficult... We are all control mongers, and generally type A personalities, that is what makes/made us successful, but also some times way too...

For those that feel the need to just be a pain in the ***.... Get over it, 99.9% of us just don't care. Seriously, I would guess that most of the people from 15+ years ago are no longer in the sport anyway, hell the biggest problem we have as an organization is the people are literally dying.

Changes will always be needed for organizations to survive, NCRS has continued to evolve, just like the rest of us, saying it took too long just points out you did t not understand the original premise. It wasn't about any spacific individual, it was about the hobby of Restoration, not building a show car.

JMHO.

 

[QUOTE=MikeM;1599275773]I'll give you two bonus points for having the correct year hubcaps on it. I know it's a '56. Is it a Bel Air?[/

Still the most distinctive ‘57 on the planet, Tom.

 

The only thing you can take to the bank is that the average age of an NCRS member gets bigger every year

 

Exactly, thus the posts wondering about future value 10 yrs down the road make no sense to me. The present owners are probably the bulk of potential buyers too.
Build your car the way you want, it irks me when some are told not to do an upgrade or repair to their liking cause it may (in their mind) lower the value of their car. What the heck is that? lol
Now if someone wants that trophy different story.

All that matters is you got one, enjoy it.

 

Why do people have in their head that NCRS is sort of group with pitch forks out after cars/people that they do not like. I have met several very nice and even better for my experience, knowledgeable people. Along with these people I got see up close many cool cars. Do many in NCRS like to see a low mileage untouched car. Absolutely we do. What better text book for us to learn from. But most even the most stringent NCRS guy is still a car at heart. Most like many many cars. As Bajaholic mentions there has been a sportsman class for many many years. In fact the Chapter at it's discretion can wave membership for a first time participant. As a way to invite new people to the club. The new concours classes invites modified cars to the club and include them in the judging process. All to get more cars and better yet more people involved. Sort of a way to let most all Corvette owners in.
I first joined in NCRS 1977. I was a 19yr old kid with his first Corvette. It was a maroon and saddle '66 convertible. It was a base 300hp with a four speed. It did have two tops,PB and headrest seats. I had no idea that any of that was rare or even desirable or what original matching numbers were. I bought the car from the original owner with 21K miles on it. It still had the original tires on the car. Which I replaced that first day. But at that time it was just 11yrs old. So this was not a rare car. But to me it was a blast. I drove it everyday until the snow would fly. Then I drove a beater through the winter. That first summer the local paper had an ad for a Corvette show close to me. So I drove over. It turned out to be a Chapter meet. There were two other maroon '66s there. These guys told me more about my car than I had known in the couple months that I had owned it. I got to see some more cool cars there as well. They asked if I was interested in joining. So I did. My dad was involved with AACA and I helped him with his restoration. It seemed like a good fit. I saved my money and bought a '61 a couple years later. My dad owned a service station and after my regular job I would work there until closing. Later in the evening it would be slower and I could work on my cars there. Many times staying until the morning. We restored another '61 project car that I bought that someone else started. I took it through both NCRS and Bloomington judging. I was hooked. I started to go to shows everywhere. It was fun. I learned what was original and correct for my cars. And the difference between those two terms. I met guys like Noland Adams and Dr. M.F. Dobbins. The trim tag from one of my 66s is in Dobbins 9th edition '63-67 facts book. The car came from the factory in primer. These were the guys who wrote the books that I was reading daily. Better yet they would answer as many questions that I had. For me the learning was fun and these people and many many others were teaching this young kid. It was fun. I try to meet and talk to as many Corvette people as I can. The car is what bring us together.
The judging process for many is not fun. I always looked at it as a challenge. After all the top award should not be easy to achieve. For what ever reason the tension can beat some down. The fun is sucked out of the event. The work involved in getting the car ready is hard. To find that someone, the judge, finds imperfections with your car is not easy for many to accept for many. So they leave and it is the judges fault. They let everyone know that NCRS is a bunch of jerks who do not know anything about these cars. It happened to me one time in the mid 80s too. By now I had owned over twenty '57-'67s. I would sell one to pay for the next. Six had earned Top Flight awards. I had my share of disagreements over some deductions in the past with judges. No big deal. We are all just humans trying to do the best that we could. This time it was different. It was a chapter meet. I was having my '67 350hp a/c roadster judged. The engine judges come to start my morning. Right off the bat they both agree that the valve covers are not original because the casting flaw in them. I let them know that it is correct for later '66s and all '67s. They were not believing it. They move to the Holley #3810 carb. They inform me that the date was incorrect. They explain that it was stamped 6B3. So it was from a '66. I tell them that stamp equals a carb built the 3rd week of Dec. '66. Perfect for a early Jan. built '67. Again not believing me. They later get into a spat between themselves over the wrap on the wiring harness. They settled the spat by deducting half the points. I am getting hot now. I asked them which car was there. The one told me he had just bought his first Corvette a '79. The other guy tells me that he is still looking for his first one. They had joined the Chapter that month. It went down hill from there and continued with the next group of judges as well. I figure I will take this up with the team leader. He lets me know that he does not have time to look at anything. The scores will stand "You will get the award that your car earns". He tells me that they did not have enough judges. This even with only pre registration. So they knew in advance how many and which cars were coming. I was also informed when I got there that they did not want me to be a judge. Their reason was that I had restored three of the cars that were entered and they did not want any preferential treatment. I can tell you the drive home was not a fun one.
My membership was up for renewal that month. I decided that I would rather just have my cars judged at Bloomington instead. So I did not renew. Like others I was not a happy camper. I was still a young guy at this time. I was still buying,restoring and selling these cars. I still loved the cars. So I left. Five or six years later I am Bloomington having a few beers with some guys who I had met through NCRS. They were still the same fun guys. They were ribbing me for being a baby. After thinking about it they were right. So I renewed. I got a new higher membership#. Many are proud of that early number. It was a price that I had to pay. I was good with it. But I was not involved like I was in the past. I would go to just the shows that I wanted to. See the people that I wanted to see. I figured this was supposed to be fun and I was back having some. The people make it fun. Besides as someone else pointed out the publications are worth the price of membership. To those who do not like NCRS it is club. You do not have to be member.
PS, To those who think that "NCRS" guys do not drive their cars I am currently driving a high scoring Top Flight 350hp roadster with original paint that still looks good. I put on a set of radial tires and a modern battery. Now I drive it most everyday. To the tune of 5,600mi last year. I have driven to both ProTeam and Mershons to do inspections. Both are 3hrs each way. Do I like it when it rains no. Does it leak,yes. But these cars are built to drive and I am having fun when I do

 

A number of years ago now, I too let things expire, due to changes in my work cycle. (Damn job just got in the way of my hobby time) but after being gone for a couple of years, I renewed. I was too, issued a new number and when I saw the membership director a couple of years later at a Regional, I jokingly made a wise *** comment about wishing I had my original number. He stated he would look it up in the computer and would change it back to my original number. At the time it was more of a joke, but I have to tell you, each quarter I receive my publications, I see the original number in the address and it makes me happy....

Shoot them an email, I am guessing you could do the same...

 

I got my original number back after a lapse of about a year - didn't have to do anything...
I couldn't care less about the "low number" aura though... I think that's one of the things that puts newer members off a bit - as if they can never "catch up"...

 

Everyone who was able to teach me anything joined way before I was born. When I go to meets I am the youngest one there by at least ten years. Do I care Not really. It’s not my fault when I was born. We are all in the group because of one thing. We like Corvettes and want to learn about them. Have I had some bad experiences at meet; yes I have. But I had more good ones then bad The club is not for everyone though. What the club is really catered to is retired people with disposable incomes. Much like the market for old Corvettes

 

I'm not sure I buy this comment. When NCRS got up and running by the late 1970s, the same "old" people who are 70 now with disposable income, were people who were 30 at that time. The average age of people who bought Corvettes in those days was also much lower. The demographic of people who bought these cars has changed significantly over time. A typical line worker in the 1970s could have purchased a new Corvette. Not so today where middle incomes have not kept pace with the increasing price of many things (like Corvettes, or college educations, etc.).

 

I won't say that personally - the "team lead" for the chapter judging at Howie-in-the-Hills and the Citrus County event is the most knowledgeable 63 guy I've met at these meets...

He's prob a good 20 years younger than me and "took me to school" on some arcane aspects of these cars when I judged them. I can't remember his name but Chuck Gongloff knows I'm sure... A personable guy who wasn't condescending at all when teaching things..

Made me wish he was the national 64/64 team leader instead of the current guy..

 

As I said earlier, I joined NCRS in 1976, member #943. I founded the SO CAL Chapter in 1980. I was the National Activities Director on the BOD in 1983-85. I quite the BOD in 1986, and bought my 64 Corvette Race car. It was the ''most fun Corvette'' I every owned. We open trailered the car to SEARS POINT, LAGUNA SECA, WILLOW SPRINGS to HMSA and VARA vintage car races.

At the end of a weekend, the car was dirty, sometime broken, but I had 8 hours behind the wheel laping these famous tracks with great new friends against their Shelby Cobra and Mustangs, Ferrari, Jaguar and others.





Today, the car is owned by author TOM COTTER who lives and races it back east at LIME ROCK, WATKINS GLEN, VIR [Virginia International Raceway] and others. He has kept the history going.

I still am active in NCRS , now in TEXAS and have done race Corvette seminars at National and Chapter events. Thank God we are all still having ''FUN''......I would have quite a long time ago if I never had any ''FUN''

 

no they arent pitchfork people but pushing thier opinion on what others do with their car is about as welcome as the JW's coming to an atheists door.

If some guy wants Summit white instead of Ermine so what!! Noones telling the NCRS guy who to marry...it shows up here almost every day. Ooh cause its rare or? Who cares, noone driving down the street will?

I once worked for Merle Duprey if anyone knows him...restored C1-2, rare 1 gen Camaros believe me we got those type in the shop all the time. Their views are fine but dont go pushing it on anyone...the experts walking around at cruise night trying to tell me how "Innnnncorrect" my ZR-1 was cause I had A molds on it...or why would I ruin such a car by racing it? Good gawd. Rant off.

 

In defense of the NCRS (!!!), they are not "pushing it" on anyone.
It's a club.. no one is forced to join...
There are clubs for just about every hobby.. some are even stricter than the NCRS..
My wife is in a gardening club.. you should hear some of the things/politics that happen there!
They make the NCRS look tame in comparison!

 

Boy you got that right... I can't imagine a typical line worker being able to afford a new Corvette today. Besides, the typical line worker is being replaced by robots that grow more capable and cost effective every year. The typical Corvette guy is approaching the check-out line and GM needs to attract a new demographic. The generation of hip, well-heeled, millennials who could afford a new Corvette have little interest in getting their hands dirty. This is why membership is drying up. We've got the same issue with flying. Pilots are dying out, airplanes are no longer affordable, and younger generation is just not that interested.

 

Exactly. Owners voluntarily pay money to join the club. Then they voluntarily register for a meet, and voluntarily pay registration fees, then voluntarily prepare their car for judging, then voluntarily give up one or more days to attend the meet. Many of them voluntarily repeat this process over and over again. Notice the word voluntarily. That means, they don't have to do any of this. They can choose a different road to travel. It's a free country (at least so far).

 

My Rant: You just don't get it. The NCRS judging platform is based on RESTORATION of the Corvette. Not modifying, or show and shine. NO ONE is going to tell you what to do to your car. Like I have stated before, 95% of owners and their cars within NCRS will NEVER make top flight. That being said, the premise is for originality. If you are all about only making them pretty, clean and want a bunch of shiny trophy's, NCCC or ISCA is your better fit.

It is about following the rules and making the car as close to the guidelines as possible. You ARE NOT competing against anyone but the book. EVERY car judged has the same opportunity to get a Top Flight if you put the dedication into it. IT IS NOT for the faint of heart, it is not easy and it is a challenge. BUT.... If you decide that is the challenge you want to accept. It can be unbelievably rewarding on a personal level to know you achieved that goal.

If not, Don't... No one cares about your choices you just seem to think they do. Off Rant.

Whew, I feel better.......

 

that just about sums it up I think.