I thought I would dig up an old story I posted awhile back of how I tracked down the history of my 70 LT-1. There was never a doubt in my mind about the authenticity of it, but after being able to talk to all of it's previous owners, I personally know it is a lock. at least in my mind

Here was the original post

After hearing some of the stories here on the forum about tracing their cars heritage, I started doing it for the 70 LT-1. I purchased the car from a guy up in Muscatine Iowa back in 86 who told me he was the third owner. Turned out I was able to still get back in touch with him so after shooting the bull for awhile I asked him if he knew anything about the previous owners. He was able to give me the guy's name he purchased the car from. Believe it or not, I was able to track him down using the Internet. Turned out he owned the car for most of it's early life. He had the car down in Louisiana for a number of years while he was in the service. Did a little racing with it but nothing serious. The car had headers on it back then. Unfortunately no luck tracking down the A.I.R pump and original carb. Anyway, he told me he purchased the car back in the 70's from an Iowa farm boy who sold it so he could by a motorcycle and get married. He said he heard the guy was later killed in a farm accident when he rolled a tractor over on top of himself But he thought his widow was still around somewhere. Well, with the help of the internet, I was able to track down a cousin who gave me the name of the widow who had since remarried. Needless to say, she was very surprised to hear from me. We talked for sometime as she reflected on the early days of her dating relationship with Dave. Said she often saw silver Corvettes that reminded her of this car and always thought it was the prettiest car ever. I e-mailed her some pics of the car which she said brought back some great memories. Anyway, she just sent these from back when Dave first had the car. They aren't very good quality but I am thankful for having them just the same.








Bullshark

 

Very nice story, Bullshark.

One of my LS6 coupes had been thru several collector car owners, when I picked it up I was surprised to find out I am the second legal owner, the title & registration were still in the original owners name. None of the physical custodians of this car ever changed it into their names, I did it to be able to get license plates on it.

 

It took me about 18 mos to find a documented LT1 that I was happy with. I wanted a 70 or 71 vert, red or ylw, with doc's. I actually had to buy it from Proteam. Ive heard all the horror stories about Proteam but with some detective work I was able to talk to the last 2 owners covering 23 or so years of ownership. I bought the car and it arrived as described and then some.

IMHO, keep looking until you find what you really want. One day it will appear. Ive seen some beautiful LT1s on this forum so keep searching here but check out the dealers as well. Good luck with the hunt.

 

what's everyone's opinion on a car that no longer has original docs but one that can be traced back to the original owner or very close to that? If you talk to that person and they claim it's original that may convince you of it's authenticity, however when you go to sell you still don't have any written proof.

 

Before you guys categorize me as " a biased guy with no documentation" let me say this. I have the 70 LT-1 with limited documentation and a 72 LT-1 with total documentation. (Original Bill of sale, window sticker, protecto plate, and just about every reciept for maint. performed).



The fact of the matter is that paper documentation is no more or less valuable than any piece of evidence a potential buyer needs to evaluate. As most of you know, 70&71 LT-1's did not identify LT-1 as a part of the VIN:, Therefore they can be cloned a little easier. It would be simple for me, if I was so inclined, to reconstruct bogus documents ( of the type shown above) for the 70,... alot easier than reconstructing the unique parts of the car that make it an LT-1. (LT-1 engine with correct VIN, transmission, frame VIN, alt, starter, etc. etc. Todays materials technology can identify a re-stamp. I am also sure it could identify documentation reproduction given enough money and commitment. In my efforts to track the 70's history, I was able to find out what dealer sold the car. I called them to see if they had any records of the sale.........they were long gone. Which supports my position that bogus records can be constructed that will be very hard to refute. I belive that if I wanted to go to the trouble, going to the Iowa state title records for each of the previous owners would be more conclusive than bill of sale, window sticker, protecto plate. I didn't try that, nor do I know if the state still has those type of records. No plans to sell it in my life time so more work was not important to me. This goes back to my original point, Is all this worth the few thousand dollars difference? Not in my book. I would be more leery of those $100k cars than the ones half that value.

Bottom line is don't put all your faith in documentation. It can be cloned too. Actual contact with all previous owners is more valuable than you think.

Bullshark

 

Thanks Bullshark. Just so you know I wasn't trying to imply that talking to the original owners is useless because you don't have anything in writing. Actually i was asking the question because I have a 71 LT-1...no original docs, looking closely at the car it appears to be a real LT-1 (but understand there are probably some really good fake jobs out there). I have a book of receipts of work done to the car as well as newspaper ads previous owners posted when trying to sell going back to the late 1980's (when these cars weren't worth much so don't think people would go through the trouble of faking it). LT-1 does show up on these newspaper ads and work receipts...but again, no tank sticker or original bill of sale or anything like that. One of the previous owners did a title search and in the paperwork passed along to me there is a piece of paper from the DMV with the title history going back to 1974. Thought about contacting previous owners....starting at the with the earliest and if i can't get in touch working my way up the list. I just haven't gotten the nerve to cold call them . I did a search on anywho and I think i found the guy. I believe the interior is original and I'm going to freshen it up soon. Hoping i will find something when i re-do the seat covers or tucked somewhere in the dash or under the carpets. If not that is ok with me given what i paid for the car. If i had bought one at 50k or 75k I would definitely be looking for original docs.

 

http://www.proteam-corvette.com/cars/272Y.htm

So if I were interested in this car, with NO documentation whatsoever, what should I look for to tell it it is a clone or an original LT-1? Understanding that if someone were good enough to fake the telltale signs, it might not be possible to tell...

The wealth of knowledge here amazes me... thanks in advance...

Bill

 

Bill,
I'm definitely not one of the experts you refer to .... but working on it.

This one is a 72 so it has a "L" in the VIN number if it is an LT1.

Greg

 

Corvette Black Book tells me the "L" is for a 350ci, but there are several suffixes and the "L" doesn't necessarily mean a 255hp mt... is that correct?
Bill

 

If the 5th digit on the VIN is an L, on a 72, it IS an LT-1. The LT-1 is the 255 horse 350 in 72.

 

Bob,

Nice story on your '70. I wish more people would spend the time to research their car's history.

I've always said that there are three components required to verify a car's history... Paper documentation, owner history, and the car itself. No single area is more important than another. It is easy for someone to fake one area of the story, but almost impossible to weave all three into a believable story.

I've been poking around for a 1970 LT-1 convertible for a while now...
Plenty of coupes turning up, but affordable drop tops seem to be a bit more elusive (especially in the colors that I'm looking for). 1970 LT-1s seem to be getting harder and harder to find.

Regards,

 

NCRS judging does NOT verify authenticity of any car or option. This a huge misconception that refuses to go away.

A perfect 'clone' scores identically to a perfect 'real' car.

 

Bob,
I'm also in PA and looking for an LT1 coupe (can't afford a convt.). If you know of any in our region, driver quality, please pass along the info.
Thanks,
Greg

 

Well guys, it looks like it's official. I will be putting the 72 LT-1 fully loaded and documented with A/C on the blocks soon. Stay tuned while I figure out how best to approach this and how much I want to ask for it.

Later,
Bullshark



one on left

one on right

 

Bob, say it ain't so!

 

Do your homework and familiarize yourself with every aspect of what makes a LT-1 unique. From the redline of the tach to the heavy duty U-joint straps to the single fuel line.

Study what makes the stamp pad on the block original and what makes one restamped.

Its easy to make a good 90% clone. More difficult ($$$) to make a 98% clone and it takes a real crafty person to make 100% clone

 

This is why I started this thread... to list all of the unique features of the LT1. This is the first time I've heard of the U-joint straps. Are you talking about the rear axle u-joints or on the drive shaft or both? Any pictures available?

So far I know of these items to look for:
1) 6500 red-line tach (5500 with AC)
2) hood
3) 27" radiator, no overflow container
4) aluminum intake with Holley carb
5) 370HP shifer data plate, 11:1 compression
6) single fuel line
7) M21 or M22 trans
8) posi rear with 3.70 or higher gears
9) L in the VIN for a '72
10) Heavy duty U-joints
11) Block numbers for 370 ('70) or 330 ('71-'72) HP motor

Anything missing?

 

My 72 LT1 came with a M20 trans and a 3.55 rear ratio. I still have the original trans with the ser. numbers of the car on it. I have all the owners back to the original guy. 14 owners in all. Been through a lot before I got it. It did not have the original engine and I have modified it to my liking. Not much of the LT1 left. It is just the motor anyway.

 

Learn what broach marks (the 'grain' on the pad) are and what they're supposed to look like.

clean broach marks:




'70 LT-1's were the only SB's to have smog equiptment. (I think that was mentioned earlier). If you find a car you think is original bring an NCRS judge with you. As noted earlier they wont authenticate but they have an eye.

I dont have pics but rather than regular u-joint straps LT-1's have the big caps like a BB.

Regular strap:

http://www.zip-products.com/Zip/prod...E7D0D0BCB3AB6A

Bigblock LT-1 locks similar to this. A cap:

http://www.zip-products.com/Zip/prod...E7D0D0BCB3AB6A


Zip got some long links....

 

The 72 with a/c uses the 5600 rpm tach. My 72 with a/c has the M20 with 3.55 gears.

Bryan