Why don't you and the other guy put your resources together and show us some proof of this?

 

What in the world do you mean by it is illegal to restamp a block?

I would like for you to provide a state statute number that has this legal language in it.

David

 

Well, I can tell you I am an NCRS member, and on it's on page 1 of the member packet. It DOES specifically mention restamping and it does explain the difference between a "restoration' and a "counterfeit". I'm lucky to have an original car, but some guys are really a little goofy when it comes to this topic. I don't need to pool my resources. Are you an NCRS member?

Anyway, you're probably not, so here is the quote from my NCRS paperwork tht came with my member packet.

"Defintions of Counterfeit vs. Restoration"

"NCRS does not consider the restoration or replacement of components as counterfeit as long as the intent is to restore the car to it's original state as it left the factory. to make this perfectly clear, read the following defintions from Webster's Dictionry and the accompanying examples.
RESTORE: " To renew; to put back to exisitance or bring a former or original state"

For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are NOT considered counterfeiting:

Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint.

Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior.

(PAY ATTENTION HERE)
Stamping a 435 HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435 HP Corvette in which it was to be installed.

COUNTERFEIT "To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or fraud"

Repainting an original blue car red, and changing the trim tag to make red to appear to be the original color.

Installing a red interior on a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior.

(PAY ATTENTION AGAIN)
Replacing the engine of an original small block with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine.

Replacing a carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original"

All of the above, (with exception of the "Pay Attention" parts are direct quotes from my paperwork directly sent to me from NCRS in my members packet. It is titled "NCRS JUDGING - OWNERS ADVISORY"

I know you want proof, so I guess I can send you a picture of me holding this document (and smiling).

 

It not illegal, as long as it is not a stolen engine part and that's the reason for the restamp, trust me on this one.

 

I agree that there are people commiting fraud as well as honest people restoring their car. I think the burden is on the buyer to do his/her home work and use many of the other tell tell signs to determine what they are buying. Most of us are not buying 150K mid year 425 or 435 big blocks. Or L88's ZL1's or LS6's

The cars that the average joe is buying is not selling for enough to make t worth a 100 % fake job.

A LT-1 may have a 10K premium. You will do better with your money in the NYSE than spending the $$$'s needed to make a base car look 100% LT-1. And If you do not do a 100% job then the buyer that is informed should find the fraud.





And the guys that can spend 150 to 600K , well that is another
palnet to me.

Yes , the honest guy is living in a world of sharks. Buy we /they can not conceede the palying field to the crooks.

I just think that blanket statments on any subject does nothing to solve anything. It only polarizes.


David

 

Thanks for taking the time to share this info. I am not a NCRS member , but I think the commets you shared from the NCRS manual were agreed upon by a group of people that possess a trait that many people fail to devlope fully as they mature. (COMMON SENSE)


David

 

yup. thanks . The comments were meant for the Mr. Ward who asked for proof. That's the best I could come up with. stay safe, john

 

Emblems, screws and air filters won't add $10000 to a $5000 car, an engine block can.
Really? I never thought of just being honest

 

Actually, I know people who pay alot for a good screw....

seriously, get back to the point. I'm not talking about re-selling a car, and lying saying it's the original block, that's wrong, I was siply talking NCRS rules for judging, some guy wanted proof that the NCRS allows it, there it is. Selling a car that was "restored" should be explained. Now a fake, that's a different story.

 

The word "restamp" to me, should mean stamping the same letters and numbers on a block that used to have those exact same numbers on it.

If you are stamping numbers on a bare block, or stamping new and different numbers on an old block, I would prefer a different word be used to describe this process.... maybe just "stamping." That's why there is so much confusion about this process, misuse of the English language.

 

Yes, and I started judging long before that piece of paperwork came out. Unfortunately for the author (Roy Sinor) it is probably the most misquoted and misunderstood statement he's ever made, despite the clear manner in which it is written.

What Roy did was clarify the difference between 'restoration' and 'counterfeit'. Period.

There is nothing in that statement that says that NCRS 'accepts restamped engines during Flight Judging'. The 'myth' started when people read something that is just not there.

Think of it this way- the engine stamp pad is judged the same as any other part- if there is no visible clue that it is a repaint/repro/incorrect/wrong config/etc, there is no deduct.

The 'myth' you and others are perpetuating infers that even if the judges detect that a pad is a restamp, there is some special allowance to let it slide with no deduct. Nope. Its a Full deduct as per my post way up above.

People also (erroneously) misquote his text as saying 'NCRS allows BC/CC paint instead of laquer'. Same logic applies- if it's detected, there's an appropriate deduction taken.

Since you're a member of NCRS, come out and attend a judging school some time, you'll learn all of these things and more. If you want to trade pictures, I'll send you one of me at this years National getting my judges hat.

 

Ok so I take my Original 100% matching # engine to the machinist,due to the balancer being thrown off the crank. Now I tell the machinist specifically SAVE THE NUMBERS. Somehow guy running the mill that day doesn't see the note on the work order and wipes the block clean.
You're telling me that I shouldn't restamp the numbers back onto the pad I'm not selling the car, and its in my will to my heirs.

My opinion: doesn't really matter, it's my opinion.

 

Perfectly stated. Amen

 

Not a misquote friend, an actual quote, word for word, maybe Vito needs to rewrite this?

Stay safe, john

 

Yep you just got a good block screwing and thats just the way it goes.
Say you pine tree out front gets bag worms and the only way to get enough money to save it is to sell the vette, well now you have to try and explain you had the block restamped or do you lie because you are desperate and don't say anything and take the money?
Never say never, I dought you keep the vette long enough to leave to anybody???

 

I used the term "re-stamping" because the practice often involves used blocks which happen to have the correct dates for the vehicle in which they are being installed. Thus the original stamp, if present, is a mis-match and is re-done, anew. Seems more of a misinterpretation on your behalf... Are there any more language critiques which I should disambiguate??

 

Vito is President, not Chief Judge. That's Roy's job.

IMHO, there's no need to re-write anything, people just need to really read and understand what's already written.

Repainting a car the original colour is restoration. Restamping a block is restoration. Rechroming a bumper is restoration. Doesn't say anywhere that if you do a poor (not typical of factory production) job of it you'll still get full points.

 

Let's call it "peace" and have a beer...enjoy our Corvettes. I've had mine since 1985 ( I was 17) and still love it. I will never sell it and hopefully my son (he's 3) will love it like I do.

Stay safe, john

 

Beer's on me!

 

I have been trying to say the same thing for a while on this Forum but some people don't seem to get. Restore means to put back as origional. People need to look it up.
KEN