Matching Numbers Question????
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 89
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From: Clayton North Carolina
Matching Numbers Question????
New to the forum and curious about matching numbers. How or who do you get certification from that shows your car truly is a matching numbers vehicle. i recently purchased a C3 and will be doing a full restoration on the car. Based on it being a matching numbers car will determine how i restore it.
Please advise
Thanks
Please advise
Thanks
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,982
Likes: 6,209
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
You don't "get" certification other than taking the car for Flight judging by NCRS or Bloomington Gold certification.
You take your Black Book, look at the engine pad, look at the VIN derivative and decide if it matches the body VIN. Then you look at the assembly code and decode the suffix, prefix and date. Also, you look at the casting date and the block number. This is what verifies whether its a matching number engine. You can take it a step further and look at the transmission case. This can also be done by a Corvette-experienced person for you.
These are the numbers that determine "matching" i.e., matching the body VIN. All other numbered and dated parts can be checked to verify "correctness."
This wasn't done before purchase?
You take your Black Book, look at the engine pad, look at the VIN derivative and decide if it matches the body VIN. Then you look at the assembly code and decode the suffix, prefix and date. Also, you look at the casting date and the block number. This is what verifies whether its a matching number engine. You can take it a step further and look at the transmission case. This can also be done by a Corvette-experienced person for you.
These are the numbers that determine "matching" i.e., matching the body VIN. All other numbered and dated parts can be checked to verify "correctness."
This wasn't done before purchase?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
From: Hawthorn Woods IL
New to the forum and curious about matching numbers. How or who do you get certification from that shows your car truly is a matching numbers vehicle. i recently purchased a C3 and will be doing a full restoration on the car. Based on it being a matching numbers car will determine how i restore it.
Please advise
Thanks
Please advise
Thanks
Without documentation anything, including "matching numbers", can be forged/re-stamped...you'll never know.
Last edited by RKB4C; Sep 11, 2008 at 01:17 PM. Reason: added link
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,419
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From: In limbo
St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...463&highlight=
Without documentation anything, including "matching numbers", can be forged/re-stamped...you'll never know.
Without documentation anything, including "matching numbers", can be forged/re-stamped...you'll never know.
Not to dredge up an old argument, but with all the fake documentation around that keeps getting harder and harder to spot, documentation doesn't mean very much in the end either.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 742
Likes: 5
From: McMurray PA
Sad but true. Long-term private owner history is about the only way to get a comfort level on authenticity anymore. I always like when I am personally the one to find and pull the crumbling, dirty paperwork out of seat springs, package trays, gas tanks, etc. on my cars. I always take photos of it undisturbed before removing it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 755
Likes: 1
From: Hobart Tasmania
A very Senior NCRS Judge gave me some good advice on the last judging event about originality/condition on a car. We were happy about the numbers etc but the originality and condition was a query and started some debate.
He said quote,"ïf it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, it's a duck".
What is original, my car didn't have the correct SMOG, carb or alternator on it when I bought it, it does know. Who would know it wasn't original to the car.
He said quote,"ïf it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, it's a duck".
What is original, my car didn't have the correct SMOG, carb or alternator on it when I bought it, it does know. Who would know it wasn't original to the car.
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Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Clayton North Carolina
Hey,thanks for the answers.
In answer to Vettebuyer5869, yes, prior to purchase i verified that engine and body numbers were matching. What kept throwing me off is i see ads for corvettes with modified or crate engines, modified bodies, etc. being advertised as "matching numbers cars". As i am starting, actually this weekend with the restoration project, I was curious what i can and cannot do, yet still maintain the originality of the car.
All the interior and exterior will be back to original. The only change will be I am installing a crate motor, but I am bagging the original and storing to maintain number matches.
One question does come up though. When i bought the car, great deal, I noticed that the drivers side rear panel had been replaced. While it maintains numbers imbedded on the panel inside the wheel well, the bonding strip was not correctly done. Looks more like "Bubba" struck again under there. Does this detract from the "numbers matching" claim on the vehicle?
In answer to Vettebuyer5869, yes, prior to purchase i verified that engine and body numbers were matching. What kept throwing me off is i see ads for corvettes with modified or crate engines, modified bodies, etc. being advertised as "matching numbers cars". As i am starting, actually this weekend with the restoration project, I was curious what i can and cannot do, yet still maintain the originality of the car.
All the interior and exterior will be back to original. The only change will be I am installing a crate motor, but I am bagging the original and storing to maintain number matches.
One question does come up though. When i bought the car, great deal, I noticed that the drivers side rear panel had been replaced. While it maintains numbers imbedded on the panel inside the wheel well, the bonding strip was not correctly done. Looks more like "Bubba" struck again under there. Does this detract from the "numbers matching" claim on the vehicle?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 1
From: Westminster Maryland
Congratulations on choosing what we all feel is the most fun and cool car ever made ! Now, as you can see, there are many opinions on numbers matching/correct cars. There are many frauds out there. Some are very good frauds. As previously stated, the history can be sketchy, but a car that can be documented through family records, pictures, and documents is a good indicator of authenticity. If a guy has pictures of him wih the car at a cookout in 1971, it is a good assumption he is telling the truth. You will hear arguments on every detail concerning this subject. Correct parts can not be proven to be original, so they also cannot be proven to be replacements. Clear as mud? Anyway, your body panel will not determine if it is numbers matching. Cars get damaged, and with 30-40 years of time, many do. Just repair it in a proper manner, and that is all you need to do. Best of luck with the restoration. I know you are new here, so the lack of pictures will be forgiven this time- but WE NEED PICS!!
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 5
From: Sacramento California
It's threads like this that make me glad that I bought a complete basket case mess that didn't have a matching anything. That gave me licence to build the car exactly the way I wanted it. Now I have a nice 69 BB 4speed coupe that I drive the he** out of, and I am not afraid to drive every weekend.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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Senior Member since 1492
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
If it's an '81, and there were over 40,000 vette's produced that year, I'm not sure matching numbers is worth getting an ulcer over. 
