View Poll Results: will gm survive?
yes
192
80.67%
no
46
19.33%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll
Gm
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 893
Likes: 7
From: Hazerswoude-Rijndijk Zuid Holland
Same "questions" on the other side of the pond?
Why does the Dutch government give ICESAFE 20b euro of my tax money to help them out compensating Dutch people who where banking with them. That is BS. Those people where smart enough to get 0.2 % more interest, they should have know there was a 20k euro compensation max. They took there money abroad and away from our economy. WHY WHY WHY do we help them out??? I don't get compensated for the loss of value of my stock, and that is money directly pumped into the economy!!
Why does the Dutch government give ICESAFE 20b euro of my tax money to help them out compensating Dutch people who where banking with them. That is BS. Those people where smart enough to get 0.2 % more interest, they should have know there was a 20k euro compensation max. They took there money abroad and away from our economy. WHY WHY WHY do we help them out??? I don't get compensated for the loss of value of my stock, and that is money directly pumped into the economy!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,679
Likes: 1,882
From: LONG ISLAND
2025 C3 ('68-'73) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
As a "GM" employee i can assure you of this:
here is a "FATHERISIM" for you all, dad once said, if you keep doing what you always did, your gonna get what you always got !!! A bailout is not the answer but merely a temporary bandaid !!! if they are losing half a billion a month, then a $24 billion dollar bailout will bandaid the problem & in another 4 years they will be in the exact position again. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out !!!
File for bankruptcy, cut the pay of all the top heavys running it into the ground, restructure, reorganize, renegociate vendor contracts & union contracts, cut back on duplicate product lines & start over with a entire new business plan !!! Example, there is no need for Chevrolet & GMC they are they are twins with different badges...........Buick should dissapear like Olds, & be consolidated into Caddilac....... ETC !!
OH.............& fly Delta, American, United, Jet Blue, coach like every other ordinary Joe, NOT FIRST CLASS OR PRIVATE JETS AROUND C'MON GIMME A BREAK !!!
P.S THEY AINT GOING ANYWHERE ..............just my .02 !!!!
here is a "FATHERISIM" for you all, dad once said, if you keep doing what you always did, your gonna get what you always got !!! A bailout is not the answer but merely a temporary bandaid !!! if they are losing half a billion a month, then a $24 billion dollar bailout will bandaid the problem & in another 4 years they will be in the exact position again. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out !!!
File for bankruptcy, cut the pay of all the top heavys running it into the ground, restructure, reorganize, renegociate vendor contracts & union contracts, cut back on duplicate product lines & start over with a entire new business plan !!! Example, there is no need for Chevrolet & GMC they are they are twins with different badges...........Buick should dissapear like Olds, & be consolidated into Caddilac....... ETC !!
OH.............& fly Delta, American, United, Jet Blue, coach like every other ordinary Joe, NOT FIRST CLASS OR PRIVATE JETS AROUND C'MON GIMME A BREAK !!!
P.S THEY AINT GOING ANYWHERE ..............just my .02 !!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 833
From: WI
I think the first problem is letting a company get so big that they hold the nation hostage expecting to be bailed out or else. A better idea would be for the government to give us all $150,000 each. That way people could use it to pay off their mortgages or credit card debt, and eliminate some debt which would allow them to buy new cars, homes, or whatever. The point is people would start spending again which will boost the economy and help out businesses in general. One question I have is if the government has 750 billion laying around doing nothing then why do we pay so much taxes to them. Just a Thought
Mark G
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 287
From: Ann Arbor Michigan
I disagree. The problem that got us in this mess is we let our fundamentals get out of wack: too many businesses and individuals living on too much credit (cards, mortgages), and businesses that were banking on an ever-improving economy ...not preparing for serious downturn. Then you have the de-industrialization that has been occuring for the last 15 yrs for the 'new economy'. Well guess what? You can't export services (or value) gained from someone working flipping hamburgers. No way we can significantly grow our economy if we continue to depend on reshuffling money around (consumption). So, I submit that our fundamentals have been moving in the wrong direction for many years and now we're seeing the ramifications.
Mark G
Mark G
You nailed it!! We HAVE to make a product in the US to survive in the "new world order" (whatever that will be). I agree with others that the current crop of CEO's are just in it to fill their pockets. Big difference from when Lee Iaccoca went to Washington to get some cash. He wanted to actually save the company. The 3 studges we have now could care less. 
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
From: Quebec Canada
I Own a 99 silverado HD, a real work horse! It's 6 years i have it and it never let me down. As far as cars go, you have the great and the lemon, in every brand. I'm no expert, but i don't think it has any thing to do with quality of the product as much as it is MANAGEMENT of a company.
Better styling couldn't hurt either, is the corvette the only car allowed to look good??
P.S. My wifes car is a 2000 Mazda 626 lx, runs nice, looks nice,
good for us. It could have been a lemon too.
I support GM, but they need change.
Tony.
Better styling couldn't hurt either, is the corvette the only car allowed to look good??
P.S. My wifes car is a 2000 Mazda 626 lx, runs nice, looks nice,
good for us. It could have been a lemon too.
I support GM, but they need change.
Tony.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!
Joe Kucinski
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 6
From: Baltimore MD
GM will survive after they claim bankruptsie ,so they can get rid of their pension and health care obligations.It has been in the works for some time now.Its the only way a company can compete with foreign companies. Its a real shame though.I fully blame our government.Our government cares more about other countries then the usa and its people,FACT.Greed and money is whats driving it and the american people must wise up and vote these asses out of office,vote out all incumbents.I lost my pension ,ive got 30 years at bethlehem steel plant,and Bush admitted that other countries were dumping steel in the usa at super cheap prices.so congress put tariffs on them countries and it worked for a while, we were coming back to making a profit and reorganising,then Bush made them drop the tariffs and we then went into bankrupties,we were in business for over a 100 years.Do i think they should bail out GM,NO,they didnot bail out other companies that needed it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 6
From: Austin Tx
GM will survive after they claim bankruptsie ,so they can get rid of their pension and health care obligations.It has been in the works for some time now.Its the only way a company can compete with foreign companies. Its a real shame though.I fully blame our government.Our government cares more about other countries then the usa and its people,FACT.Greed and money is whats driving it and the american people must wise up and vote these asses out of office,vote out all incumbents.I lost my pension ,ive got 30 years at bethlehem steel plant,and Bush admitted that other countries were dumping steel in the usa at super cheap prices.so congress put tariffs on them countries and it worked for a while, we were coming back to making a profit and reorganising,then Bush made them drop the tariffs and we then went into bankrupties,we were in business for over a 100 years.Do i think they should bail out GM,NO,they didnot bail out other companies that needed it.
Last edited by Mashman; Nov 22, 2008 at 04:40 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 6
From: Baltimore MD
Who ever believes we can ,is a fool.Most all our factories and high tech jobs have moved out of our country,and illegals are filling our jobs here.people need to stop wearing blinders and really see whats happening .By the way ,Bush will go down in history as the worst president there ever was.
Also the WTO is a joke and should not have been agreed to,screw Clinton for putting it in and agreeing to it.
Last edited by Billysvette; Nov 22, 2008 at 06:08 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 4
From: Regina Saskatchewan
Instead 0f dumping a billion dollars into GM , maybe the government should afix a sticker to each car that says... this car was 50% made here , or 70 % made here or whatever. that way we'd be able to make a better choice. So the Toyota might have a 50% here sticker cause it was so called "manufactured" here, but the Siverado that was "manufactured" in mexico would have something else. Maybe I'm not helping nothing by buying the Toyota manufactured here when I "Could" be helping more by buying whatever manufactured in Mexico.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 6
From: Baltimore MD
Sorry for ranting,i am just very passionate about all this,i just see america and the american dream going up in smoke.I dont want GM to go under,but it is kinda their fault.Poor managing,poor designing,etc.But whos to say it wasnt planned ,I think it was.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
Likes: 0
From: waterloo ontario
Bankruptcy, this is what`s needed to purge the fat. Do you really believe the CEO and upper echelon give a crap about the company.
What`s to say if GM gets the bailout, they don`t follow what Goldman Sachs has done. Goldman Sachs gets a 6 billion pound bailout, then turns around and is going to hand off 7 billion pound in bonuses. Oh to be a white collar thief.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-bail-out.html
6.00 GBP = 8.92114 USD X billion bailout money
7.00 GBP = 10.4080 USD X billion bonus money ( and salaries )
If only I could step up to the begging bowl window...I could use a billion or 2
Rod
Love the Vette
What`s to say if GM gets the bailout, they don`t follow what Goldman Sachs has done. Goldman Sachs gets a 6 billion pound bailout, then turns around and is going to hand off 7 billion pound in bonuses. Oh to be a white collar thief.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-bail-out.html
6.00 GBP = 8.92114 USD X billion bailout money
7.00 GBP = 10.4080 USD X billion bonus money ( and salaries )
If only I could step up to the begging bowl window...I could use a billion or 2
Rod
Love the Vette
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 287
From: Ann Arbor Michigan
Everyone needs to understand that if the big 3 go under, the whole contry will suffer, even those that don't by their products. I say don't let them fail, but do something about exectitive compensation in ALL businesses.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim California
Billyvette, I too lost pension from Bethlehem Steel but I blame management for being igorant and arrogant the two worst afflictions. They also like Detroit let the Unions get too powerful and expensive when faced with foreign steel. Detroit management have done the same. Big Steel in the US is now healthy but the transision was extremely painful but necessary. Nobody made an effort to save Big Steel and we all survived and are now stronger because we depended on outselves in stead of the Government. Ed
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 6
From: Baltimore MD
Billyvette, I too lost pension from Bethlehem Steel but I blame management for being igorant and arrogant the two worst afflictions. They also like Detroit let the Unions get too powerful and expensive when faced with foreign steel. Detroit management have done the same. Big Steel in the US is now healthy but the transision was extremely painful but necessary. Nobody made an effort to save Big Steel and we all survived and are now stronger because we depended on outselves in stead of the Government. Ed
You are right but after we reorganized and cut everything we started to do well again along with the tariffs,but after Bush and congress stopped the tariffs we went under.What bothers me the most is that Bush promised to leave tariffs on because they were dumping steel in the usa and then when we started to get on our feet he dropped them
Believe me we cut to the bone ,got rid of most managment,upper,we made very painful cutting,and he caved to other other countries .i could go on and on,but i wont.Like you said "NOBODY" stood up for us in the steel industry its not fair that GM gets bailed out.Brother Ed i hope everything is ok with you and may god bless you ,all steel workers really deserve it, we have suffered so.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim California
Billyvette, in full disclosure I was in management in the engineering depatment so I had an inside view of their mismanagement for over 21 years and I fought them constructively every inch of the way. I was on the west coast and centralized management from Bethlehem Home Office was like the old Soviet Union and contributed most to the down fall that started with good imported steel from Japan in the 1970's. The word was at the time that it was poor quality but it was very good quality. Bethlehem came out of WW II strong and thinking that nothing could topple them. Guess again. I still consider myself an steelworker brother but I had to change and have started my own steel construction business and have done very well. Hurting now but I have been through this a few times before and will get through this but not without some pain. That is just liffe and business but you must depend on your self reliance. Ed
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 6
From: Baltimore MD
Billyvette, in full disclosure I was in management in the engineering depatment so I had an inside view of their mismanagement for over 21 years and I fought them constructively every inch of the way. I was on the west coast and centralized management from Bethlehem Home Office was like the old Soviet Union and contributed most to the down fall that started with good imported steel from Japan in the 1970's. The word was at the time that it was poor quality but it was very good quality. Bethlehem came out of WW II strong and thinking that nothing could topple them. Guess again. I still consider myself an steelworker brother but I had to change and have started my own steel construction business and have done very well. Hurting now but I have been through this a few times before and will get through this but not without some pain. That is just liffe and business but you must depend on your self reliance. Ed
Thats ok Ed i still consider managment steel worker brothers,we were all in it together.and you are right about upper managment,but my plant was the one of the last to go and we were making it.I worked at sparrows point devision ,Baltimore MD,we have been bought 3 times now ,ISG,MITTAL STEEL,SEVERSTAL.American-indian-russian. We are russian owned now and each buyer made ALOT of money with us,the last sale our government made that happen ,forced us to be sold to the russians.There is no retiring for me ,i will be working till im dead.My pension and 401k has been raped to where not much left.I do feel bad for GM workers,they will go through the same hell steel workers went through.
Last edited by Billysvette; Nov 23, 2008 at 04:13 PM.