Ignition/Starting Question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
Ignition/Starting Question
Wondering if anyone has ever had this problem before: When I turn the key to accessory, the idiot lots come on and the A/C blower-fan turns on low speed (1977 vette) like it is supposed to. Then when I turn the key to start the motor, everything goes quite...i.e. the lights go out, fan stops, and of course the motor does not start. I tested the batter and it is good. This has happened to me several times before, but it is almost like it corrects itself somehow. I am not sure if it is the ignition switch or what? Any ideas?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 469
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From: Tallinn (Estonia)
Sounds like bad connection between battery cables and the battery. Try cleaning them with iron brush and contact cleaner spray. I had such issue on my Vette and yesterday we fixed a similar thing on a Cadillac STS.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
Since everything else goes 'dead', the wiring/connections are not allowing enough current to pass for the starter to function...thus the voltage drops to almost nothing. Check all wires and connections leading to the starter. It is NOT the starter solenoid, but it could be the battery, itself.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
I just checked the voltage at the starter and it is good...is there anything else that could be shorting out? When I turn the key to start...nothing happens...it's like I turned the key off...no power at all. Could a bad ignition switch do this? What do I need to do to replace the switch?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
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From: Cameron Park CA
Check the voltage at the starter when somebody turns the key to "Start". If it drops way down, it is probably a bad battery, dead cell for instance, or a bad connection that won't pass the current. Alternatively you can take the battery out and have it load tested.
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 37
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From: Rolla MO
This same exact thing happened to me about a month ago, and thanks to everyone on the forum for helping me out! My battery was decent, went ahead and purchased a new (more powerful of course) one just to be safe in the future, and the whole problem ended up being due to a wire connected to the starter. All my electronics worked fine, but when I went to turn the car on....nothing! I little bit of investigation led me to a wire which had been exposed, partially broken, and dirty as can be. I managed to cut and replace said wire and she started right up! I think some critter crawled up next to my engine for the warmth and might have gotten a little hungry. Not sure if this is what happened to you but it sure worked for me! 
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
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From: Taylor Michigan
Checking battery voltage at the numerous connections is not the same as the initial draw a starter uses. Any connection will show 12+ volts, its that the starter will draw from anywhere {brake lines, emergency cables, and shift cables} to correct a bad ground and they are not quite good enough to activate starters at times... Clean the short battery ground cable under the car at the cross-member. This is overlooked about 90% of the time. Many or even most will incorrectly assume the starter or battery is bad, ya know that mysterious "heat soak" phenomenon...
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
I am out of options trying to figure this thing out. I triple checked all of the wires/grounds to the starter. I had my son turn the key while I measured the volts at the starter to see if it dropped when turning the key..and it did not. I even tried to jump the battery...that didn't work either. Is anyone aware of a type of wire/connection that is tied to the ignition switch that when I turn the key all power is lost and of course the car does not start. As a reminder -- when I turn the key to accessory all electrics power up normally, only when I try to start the car does everything die.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,422
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From: McHenry Illinois
Do all the accessories work when the ign is turned to on but not trying to start ? When the key is turned to start, the accessory circuit will be dead, but the ign circuit will be live. Then when you release the key to the ign (run) position, the accessory circuit will be live. If you aren't getting any accessories to work when the key is in the run position, then the ign switch may be the problem.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
You hit the nail on the head. Everything works (gauge lights, etc.) when the key is turned to accessory. When I turn the key to run, all lights die and then silence. How hard is it to replace the ignition switch? I have glanced at Jim Shea's paper, but am nervous about taking out the column, do I need to take out the column or can I just drop it down a little to expose the switch? I sent Jim a PM, but he has not responded yet.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
Before I tear into the dash...any other ideas as to why this might happen. Is there a single wire that comes out of the ignition switch, and where does it go? should I try to bridge the starter to see if the engine will at least turn over...How do I do this...will I melt the wires down by the starter?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Farifax Station VA
Jim / et al,
Below is a "search" discovery I found on the forum w/ a guy describing exactly what I have been experiencing.
Jim,
The rod linking the lock cylinder to the ign switch does move when the key is turned, I have not troubleshot what happens when I tilt the wheel though. As long as the rod is moving when the key is turned, is that not good enough to hit the ign switch...it is just a mechanical linkage, correct?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...itch-help.html
Below is a "search" discovery I found on the forum w/ a guy describing exactly what I have been experiencing.
Jim,
The rod linking the lock cylinder to the ign switch does move when the key is turned, I have not troubleshot what happens when I tilt the wheel though. As long as the rod is moving when the key is turned, is that not good enough to hit the ign switch...it is just a mechanical linkage, correct?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...itch-help.html
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Kawartha Lakes and PEC, Ontario
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
The 'curious' symptom [in all of this] is that the lights, etc. go "dead" when the key is turned to Start mode. If the starter solenoid were not functioning, then there would not be a high current draw imposed by the starter and the lights, etc. would not go off. My next check would be to put a voltmeter on the battery terminals and see what the supply voltage does when you attempt to start the car. If there is no drop in voltage, then something in the 'starter electrical circuit' is going open so that 12vdc is disconnected from the starter solenoid and the lights, etc. If the voltage does 'take a dive', chances are the battery is kaput.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 11
From: Hinckley OH
Get a remote starter switch. This link will tell you how to use it. http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kd124.html
If you use it and the starter doesn't turn, you need to replace the starter.
If you use it and the starter doesn't turn, you need to replace the starter.