Engine date code question
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 402
Likes: 1
From: Medford NJ
Engine date code question
A '72 LT-1 that I just looked at has "1V1213" stamped on the engine pad (before the "CKY" LT1 engine code). This would be Dec. 13, 1971. The problem is that the trim tag shows a vehicle assembly date of Oct. 3, 1971 ("CO3", more than 2 months PRIOR). 
I told the dealer who has it on consignment that something is wrong, since the engine must be assembled PRIOR to the assembly date of the vehicle. I believe NCRS only allows approx. 2 months prior? But this dealer thought that the engine could have been made on Dec. 13, 1970! I can't imagine the engine laying around (even if it was in Engineering for testing) for 9 months prior to the car being built. I thought only humans took that long to give birth. 
Can someone well versed in the correct date codes please give me their opinion on this? What if it was a GM replacement block? Would they have stamped the VIN on that pad? Thanks.
I told the dealer who has it on consignment that something is wrong, since the engine must be assembled PRIOR to the assembly date of the vehicle. I believe NCRS only allows approx. 2 months prior? But this dealer thought that the engine could have been made on Dec. 13, 1970! I can't imagine the engine laying around (even if it was in Engineering for testing) for 9 months prior to the car being built. I thought only humans took that long to give birth. Can someone well versed in the correct date codes please give me their opinion on this? What if it was a GM replacement block? Would they have stamped the VIN on that pad? Thanks.
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From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
NCRS "allows" (not really, but for the sake of this discussion I dont want to get into semantics) 6 months, not 2. However, the dates are usually tighter. I do not think 9 months is really out of the question.
A replacement block would be a CE code, and the VIN would not be stamped.
What is the 1. block number and 2. block date code?? Important here.
Does the trim tag date jive with the build date according to the VIN?
PS: a pic of the pad would also be nice.
A replacement block would be a CE code, and the VIN would not be stamped.
What is the 1. block number and 2. block date code?? Important here.
Does the trim tag date jive with the build date according to the VIN?
PS: a pic of the pad would also be nice.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Westminster Maryland
Hi VFE,
I don't think the first '1' refers to a year. I believe that the Broadcast Code signifies the year AND configuration.
IF the engine had been stamped in December of 1970 (the dealer's point) wouldn't it would have a CGZ or CGY (NOT CKY) broadcast code since this engine would have been built during the beginning of the 1971 production. Did Flint even know what the 72 Broadcast Code (CKY) would be at that early date?
I agree with your thought.... Dec. 13, 1971.
Regards,
Alan
I don't think the first '1' refers to a year. I believe that the Broadcast Code signifies the year AND configuration.
IF the engine had been stamped in December of 1970 (the dealer's point) wouldn't it would have a CGZ or CGY (NOT CKY) broadcast code since this engine would have been built during the beginning of the 1971 production. Did Flint even know what the 72 Broadcast Code (CKY) would be at that early date?
I agree with your thought.... Dec. 13, 1971.
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 402
Likes: 1
From: Medford NJ
Hi VFE,
I don't think the first '1' refers to a year. I believe that the Broadcast Code signifies the year AND configuration.
IF the engine had been stamped in December of 1970 (the dealer's point) wouldn't it would have a CGZ or CGY (NOT CKY) broadcast code since this engine would have been built during the beginning of the 1971 production. Did Flint even know what the 72 Broadcast Code (CKY) would be at that early date?
I agree with your thought.... Dec. 13, 1971.
Regards,
Alan
I don't think the first '1' refers to a year. I believe that the Broadcast Code signifies the year AND configuration.
IF the engine had been stamped in December of 1970 (the dealer's point) wouldn't it would have a CGZ or CGY (NOT CKY) broadcast code since this engine would have been built during the beginning of the 1971 production. Did Flint even know what the 72 Broadcast Code (CKY) would be at that early date?
I agree with your thought.... Dec. 13, 1971.
Regards,
Alan
Administrator
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From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Alan, I think if the engine supposedly was made for a 1972, it would carry a 1972 suffix, not one for 1971 use. But, I agree with the assumption that the 1970 built is a stretch.
However, as I asked for before :
What is the block date code???
This date as well as comparing the VIN to the trim tag date might make this discussion less esoteric (or more confusing
).
However, as I asked for before :
What is the block date code???
This date as well as comparing the VIN to the trim tag date might make this discussion less esoteric (or more confusing
).
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,200
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From: Westminster Maryland
Hi VB,
That's the thing, it DOES have the 72 suffix as it should if built in Dec.71. I'm saying if it was built in Dec.70 it would have a 71 suffix.
I, too, would like to see the casting date for the cylinder case... and the pad.
It could well be a real LT-! engine, but for this car????????
Regards,
Alan
That's the thing, it DOES have the 72 suffix as it should if built in Dec.71. I'm saying if it was built in Dec.70 it would have a 71 suffix.
I, too, would like to see the casting date for the cylinder case... and the pad.
It could well be a real LT-! engine, but for this car????????
Regards,
Alan
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......anybody can "document" matching numbers. The question is WHO did the documenting.
...at this point it seems everything is guessing until that block date code is known, or is it mysteriously gone or "ground off"???
Safety Car
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From: Indy Indiana
I saw an article once that the 1st test mule A/C LT-1 was built Sept. 20 71 and was evaluated with lengthy testing before A/C was approved for LT-1 orders. does anyone know when the 1st A/C LT-1's were built?
some folks here on the forum know lots more about A/C LT-1's. if this car is a A/C LT-1 then it is a real early one. if you are paying LT-1 A/C Money for this car, you really need to make sure it is what they say it is. don't think there is supposed to be a '1' in front of the V1213 stamp?
as said the date code of the block will help out alot. an engine cannot be assembled and stamped after the car is built. if it is stamped as you say, then there is something big wrong. don't pay more than NOM Money for that car.
some folks here on the forum know lots more about A/C LT-1's. if this car is a A/C LT-1 then it is a real early one. if you are paying LT-1 A/C Money for this car, you really need to make sure it is what they say it is. don't think there is supposed to be a '1' in front of the V1213 stamp?
as said the date code of the block will help out alot. an engine cannot be assembled and stamped after the car is built. if it is stamped as you say, then there is something big wrong. don't pay more than NOM Money for that car.
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That's quite a tale. I have yet to see a bona fide factory installed engine with a stamp pad like that. The story behind it is far fetched too.
Have you checked the VIN to see if this a real LT1?
There were only ~225 LT1s built with A/C. I was under the impression that they only were built towards the end on the production run, ie Jan 72 onwards IIRC. Not possible to have an A/C car built in Oct '71.
Have you checked the VIN to see if this a real LT1?
There were only ~225 LT1s built with A/C. I was under the impression that they only were built towards the end on the production run, ie Jan 72 onwards IIRC. Not possible to have an A/C car built in Oct '71.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Medford NJ
I expect to get the block casting number and full VIN (which I didn't write down - DUH) by tomorrow. If the production for the '72 model ended in July (72), then I can see how it would be impossible for its engine to be assembled in Dec. '72. It also has a vinyl trim code with leather seat covers (no biggie). I found a patch in the inner right front wheel well and the repaint is checking as well. So anything is possible with this one. I appreciate the input. More to follow...
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Racer
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From: Medford NJ
Here are another couple suspicious items that I noticed. The blue GM label (with the VIN and build date) is missing on the inside of the drivers door, and the emissions label under the hood is missing the top section (like it was torn away). Wouldn't that 2 digit alpha code indicate which HP engine the car came with as well?
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Here are another couple suspicious items that I noticed. The blue GM label (with the VIN and build date) is missing on the inside of the drivers door, and the emissions label under the hood is missing the top section (like it was torn away). Wouldn't that 2 digit alpha code indicate which HP engine the car came with as well?
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Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Medford NJ
The full VIN is 1Z37L2S513350. The engine block casting number is 3970010. I'm waiting for the date code from the rear of the engine block also. As I said, car was built on Sept. 3rd, 1971.
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...Wouldn't that 2 digit alpha code indicate which HP engine the car came with as well?...
The should be no 1 before the V1213 on your engine pad.
Last edited by Easy Mike; Feb 23, 2010 at 08:06 AM.