Thanks Joe,
I was going to try to avoid replying to this thread since the point got lost but you summed it up so very well for me,
Again Thank you!

After thinking about it I believe the offer for a refund is known by the shop to be unpractical in this situation which is likely why they offered it a much bigger more costly task for me rather than the easy out which of course was to just give me the items to make the repairs needed.

Like I have said before and will take a few steps further,
I do believe the internals are okay, the car did run from Jacksonville to Orlando, of course I couldn't shut the engine off or it would not have restarted,

People should place themselves in my shoes to better understand what got me all chapped and frustrated depressed to start with,
Due to my health issues I do not get out much, my wife is a full time professor at the college in addition my wife and I are the caretakers of my 84 year old mother, being out of town too long is not an option, so the trip up to Jacksonville had to be carefully worked out.

I asked over and over for the "car" to be checked out to be fit to drive home, I made it clear I had not driven the car and had only limited checked it out,
Because of timing and monthly pay I had to wait an extra week to get the car, during that extra week I was told the car was driven and checked out fine.

So imagine how I felt when I get the car to dads less than a mile from the shop and a few hours later it will not start,
I install a new battery and then the next morning not only is that battery dead but the fuel filter leaked fuel all over the carport.

I do not believe I am out of line that since I did ask for the car to be checked over and because they did change both the starter and alternator that they would check and be sure the related systems worked,

I will not believe that all those issues simply popped up in my drive from the shop to my dads.
So I need to get the car running because we needed to get home I replace the filter and jump start it,
I remove the air cleaner to set the idle a bit higher and I see the carburetor,
After the above mentioned things going wrong and seeing the carb how can anyone blame me for being disgusted....but the shop does.

Being promised the fluid damper and roller rockers then not told when they were not included only deepened my disgust and frustration.

Poor boy,
Calling them will not help as they really do not care, sure Phil will spew how he expected me to praise him for the build but you read her reply, never do they apologize for the issues, they swing the spot light and blame me for it all,
They get all convoluted but even try to blame me for they way they shade tree rigged the carb,
Like you said a picture is worth a 1000 words and in this case perhaps a million words because not one person here said they thought that carb looked like it was well rigged,
And like you saw in her reply they do not care what I say or is said here as they have all the business they want...

noonie
Thanks man,

I can tell who is looking at this the way it really is and who just wants to use it as a lame excuse to poke at me,

I didn't want a full refund just the junk fixed....
Like I said the shop knows that even thought they offered some "golden" full refund that isn't really what it would be, do they have all my old stuff? will they reinstall it?
Will I have back what I handed them...will they damage my car?
The cost of the trips and time?

I do not have the receipt in front of me when the wife gets home I will let you know how they wrote up the tax part....

 

One friend that sells and buys automotive shop equipment also was telling me that he has been seeing a lot of slowdown in all the shops he visits, dealerships and privates and a lot of shop owners complaining, at best they are staying busy, not swamped like before. Must have repairs insead of maintenance.
His own income from that was over 100 grand less last year.

Not too familiar with your area, but a lot of dealerships have closed down, smaller garages too and a lot of mechanics out of work, I'm sure doing things on the sly for a buck. That stuff adds up too, great for the customer. Get a 400 tranny rebuilt for 100 bucks, can't beat it.

Amazing the amount of SnapOn tools available. Time to buy, Have seen $15,000 boxes loaded sell for less than 4, can't beat it lifetime waranty.

 

Experience? Okay, experience is applicable across a wide spectrum of issues and personal conduct. I know Bats personally and have had business expeience with him. I found him to be brutally honest, ethical, and one who takes care of the people he does business with until all aspects of the deal are done.

You're right about sharing knowledge and experience on the "Forum". On that I agree with you, but how long it takes to tell the story takes what it takes. I can imagine your statement of an experience according to your peception of how one should declare what happened, " I got "effed", end of story." Come on, I read your answer and I know you must be capable of a higher level of understanding and communication.

As far as "winners" or "losers" where are you going with that? Another thing I only have a C4 at the moment, but I've owned (in the past) a C1(58) as well as a C3 (76) and am currently in the process of negotiating a deal on another C3 (78), sooo... as far as you are concerned I should wait until I purchase a C3 before I drop down here to get things to look out for before buying the current C3? If so I guess that would make you a "winner" and enforcer of who should be down here. That is me making as stupid a statement as you telling someone how long and how much space one should utilize to give a detailed accounting of what happened.

Time for you to say so again.

 

That is interesting. My go-to guy for all the stuff I'm not brave enough to tackle myself has been swamped because he claims that so many more people are holding onto their old beaters. It's to the point that he's turning people away for smaller jobs. Everytime I drive past his shop, the lot is packed.

 

In retrospect, my sarcasm was not conveyed as I intended when I commended Nancy for her offer of a refund. Of course it's not practical, and I don't believe for one second that they (the shop) would cut you a check for $3700 if you showed up with that engine on a silver platter. They don't want you to take them up on that offer, Bats. Nooo sir And they know you can't which is the only reason why it was made in the first place.

And Nancy, you're not dealing with idiots here. Everyone who read your response noted the way you did not address and/or danced around things like the carb rigging, the leaking coolant, the leaking fuel, and the shoddy wiring. No mechanic with any modicum of self respect lets a car roll out of his shop with those issues and that jury rigging.

 

I knew how you meant it but it might be a good thing you spelled it out for the less savvy or the ones who want to use her so called "offer" of a refund as some fodder to poke at and scold me.

Something I never mentioned before but might be worth adding,
This seems to be a "family" business, the daughter was helping mom in the office and the son who appeared as young as perhaps 15 let it be known to me "he" installed my engine.

The owner Phil is a very prideful man and we all know how bitter and jagged a pill pride/ego can be to swallow...my grandmother used to say some folks will cut off their nose to spit their face,

Using my 917 kit car as an example,
The car has a custom built frame, a one off and whoever built the "basic" frame knew a thing or two about frame design, they had great welding and fabricating skills and the basic frame is top shelf.
But much of the finish out was as you guys call it here "bubba" or worse,
It was a mess I had to sort out and fix...it just didn't seem the same person did all the work.

If I apply that to my engine, I would bet something pretty the bottom end and engine build is okay, Phil does the work well and obviously takes great pride in it.
But then the finish out is left to whoever...things like that carb rigging happen and are overlooked or justified by Phil who believes his part of the build so over shadows the shade tree parts that they are okay to allow.

This is further indorsed by the fact that I was told Phil was too angry I didn't praise him to get on the phone with me,
I mean how many times did you run into a shop who demanded praise?

Of course Nancy didn't address the real issues but did a smoke and mirrors dance,
The simple fact is no one would "praise" the finish out of that build.

 

Take lots of pics, have a real mechanic look at it and give a deposition of the condition of the "top end rebuild", send a certified letter to the mechanic stating that you're not happy with the "rebuild" and want a complete refund or you'll take him to small claims court (find out what the max amount your state allows). Document every cost involved that you've paid.

Sue his ***. Ask that incidental amounts be paid (rental car, tow truck charges, etc).

Make peace with you dad, if possible. The "mechanic" may be a friend of his, but he's a crook and scam artist. IF you old man wants to hang out with im, so be it. If he gets ripped-off by this guy, then it's his fault for not listening to you.

I don't care if the internals were done by him and are decent, the install job, the finish pain, everything else, such as using a junk Holley instead of your new Edelbrock carb, the "extra" $700" and demand of "cash only" paints this guy as a crook who knew this engine was a peice of crap rebuild. This man is not your frind, he's a oppunoristic crook and nothing more. Don't feel guilty of being screwed, ger what you paid for or get your money back.

Then buy a Turkey ZZ-4 Performance engine.

Good luck.

 

Bats,
I read this entire thread.. and I really feel sorry for you man. So many things that shop did were red flags even before you got the car back from them. That entire experience is a nightmare...

I thought I would share how my experience went this winter - I also had a 383 built. I did the pull/install myself, and a lot of parts I bought separate from the builder (fuel pump, water pump, clutch, etc). Just keep what I talk about in mind for the next time you have a motor built.

I spoke with some friends and other peopl I know about a reccomendtion on who to have build a motor for me. They all spoke highly of a local builder who deals mostly with circle track guys - They said he was cheap and did good work, but was pretty slow getting things out.

I called and spoke with the builder and he was more than happy to answer my questions. We talked a few times over a week and agreed on an estimated range. He was VERY indepth with his questions on what I wanted to use the motor for, what RPM range it was at most the time, how long it would be staying there, what I expected out of it, etc.

I ended up giving him the OK in early december to go ahead and start building the motor. He stayed in contact pretty regularly, about once a week I got a call from him, usually about a part. One day he found an awesome sale on a set of cnc'ed aluminum heads and gave me a call about them. He didn't just assume I wanted them, but made sure I did. Any time he encountered a problem I got a call about it - For example we ordered a lightened flywheel. He realized after it was in that it was for a different style clutch than what I had told him I was putting on. He called, we found a replacement, and I never heard about it again nor saw it on the final bill. He called me and got input on almost everything. A good example is he knew I was getting the intake/valve covers powder coated, so he waited till he got them from me to paint the block and timing cover, just to make sure they would look good together.

About three months later (early march) the motor was finally done. It was a similar build to what yours was supposed to be - 383, forged eagle crank/rods, speed pro pistons, patriot freedom series cnc'ed aluminum heads, roller rockers, flat tappet cam, new oil pan, etc. It ended up at $3700 not including all the parts I bought or used off the old motor (after some powder..). This is how it looked when he brought it to me:




He was a bit slow, but has been excellent other than that. He came by my buddies shop where I was doing the install a couple of times to take pics of it in the car and make sure things were going good. He called last week to check up and make sure the motor was running good. I had some oil pressure questions (way higher than I anticipated) and he was able to answer them and tell me exactly why it was high and even quote the clearance measurements from his log book.

Thats how it SHOULD be though. Your builder works for YOU, not the other way around. If you arent getting answers or returned phone calls, pull your stuff. You do not owe them any loyalty. It is a big investment and their reputation is on the line at all times. If they build a motor that comes out like crap, people will hear about it and it will effect their sales. Your builder should be able to show you pictures of previously built motors if not direct you to someone he has built one for who could happily show it off to you. He should be INTERESTED in what you want. He should know what application you want to use the motor for and have some ideas on how it should be setup. He should be asking you questions all through the build to see what you really want and not just making assumptions. He should have dyno results from combinations he has built or at the very least generic results from similar combinations to help you gauge what combo you really want to go with. The slightest part can make a HUGE difference - something as simple as an intake manifold could absolutely kill the performance of your motor if its not matched up properly with the heads/cam you choose, and your builder should be well aware of that and offering suggestions along the way.

Good luck with your next build.. I hope you get this resolved quickly. I think I would have lawyered up already in your situation. Do your homework the best you can next time and really make sure the builder is a motor builder, not just a general mechanic that could care less about what they put out.

 

The13Bats, I've been following this thread, but now i'm confused.

You took all this time writing out the original post and all your responses, uploading/posting pictures, sent the shop a link to this thread, rebuttled, read the feedback from forum members about this...and from what your saying...you are just going to do nothing?

I can understand a need to vent, but i'm suprised you did all of this here, and your just going to do nothing and take it on the chin.

At a minimum you should double check an itemized list of what you were charged for and recieved, and get any parts they kept back...at a minimum you could sell them for scrap, lol, and maybe get back money they 'should' owe you.

Also it seems like you don't even want to bother dropping the oil pan and/or pulling the valve covers to see what you have. You could take pictures/video and post them here and i'm sure people could tell you what's going on and help verfiy what you got.

Just because it runs and it got you home doesn't mean you got what you paid for, and you have your doubts as well because it don't have the performance you think it should....so why wouldn't you want to check out what you have?

 

On a better note I went to the parts store and bought most of what I needed to make things safe and not all shade tree bubba....less than a 100.00

 

You may want to ask a mod to lock this topic, but I'll say this:

This guy assraped you. God knows how many other people he's cheated over the years. God knows if there have been people injured due to "15 year-old expert master-mechanic" and him cutting corners and doing inferior work.

This man does not deserve to stay in business and if your dad wants to stay friends with him over his son, then that shows where your dad stands. I waved goodbye to my dad when I turned 18 and it was the best day of my life. You're going to allow this menace to continue to operate because he's using your dad against you?

God help this mechanic if I'm ever in a wreck with a car he hap-hazzardly repaired, because I can promise that when all is said and done, I'll own his double-wide trailer and anything else in his name. I'll make Denny Crane proud of me the way I would go after him. First the BBB would hear from me, then small claims court, then the biggest damned billboard in town warning people about his business practices.

I guess that I'm lucky I don't have a dad he can use to run interference.

Am I angry with you? Damned right. Not at you, per se, but the fact that because you've backed down, it gives this guy the bravery to contine to do half-assed repairs that may affect other's lives and safety.

You have a moral duty to put this guy out of the auto-repair business and into the "Wal-Mart Greeter" business.

 

I agree with what your doing Bats. Just get the new intake and carb that you want on it, and that might wake up the engine. At the very least, you can get a look at the lifters and a little look at the cam. My biggest concern is the fact he didn't know enough to use sealer on the intake threads, what else did he do wrong? That is a flat out build mistake that they can't blame on a "just to get it home-free part". You may never know till "funny noise and smoke" time comes.(hopefully not)
Probably best to put this experience in the old I'll know better next time file, and continue with some basic checking and repairing.
Best of luck

 

QUOTE=American Raven;1573701230]You may want to ask a mod to lock this topic, but I'll say this:

This guy assraped you. God knows how many other people he's cheated over the years. God knows if there have been people injured due to "15 year-old expert master-mechanic" and him cutting corners and doing inferior work.

This man does not deserve to stay in business and if your dad wants to stay friends with him over his son, then that shows where your dad stands. I waved goodbye to my dad when I turned 18 and it was the best day of my life. You're going to allow this menace to continue to operate because he's using your dad against you?

God help this mechanic if I'm ever in a wreck with a car he hap-hazzardly repaired, because I can promise that when all is said and done, I'll own his double-wide trailer and anything else in his name. I'll make Denny Crane proud of me the way I would go after him. First the BBB would hear from me, then small claims court, then the biggest damned billboard in town warning people about his business practices.

I guess that I'm lucky I don't have a dad he can use to run interference.

Am I angry with you? Damned right. Not at you, per se, but the fact that because you've backed down, it gives this guy the bravery to contine to do half-assed repairs that may affect other's lives and safety.

You have a moral duty to put this guy out of the auto-repair business and into the "Wal-Mart Greeter" business.[/QUOTE]


I agree with 90% of what you say. The only thing will say in disagreement is I'm sure Bats does not feel the same regarding the "best day of his life" being the day he and his Father's relationship turned different directions. I have had many lengthy conversations with Bats and I feel pretty certain that this is one of the worst days of his life,

I do not doubt the validity of your and your Father's relationship as I have seen these kinds of relationships in the past. That being stated, I hope some day you and your father will reconcile on at least one level and that is no one is innocent in most of these types of things. I am not vindicating your father I am just reminding you we all get only one of each parent.

However, on everything else I do agree and I think your summation of the entire situation is right on the money!

 

My dad's dead. He beat me on a weekly basis, often telling me how lucky I was thathe was my dad. He pulled guns on me if he felt that I hadn't done a job to his pleasing - something as ordinary as mowing the lawn would be a reason for him to tell me of my worthlessness.

I choose my friends wisely. I have very little to do with my family because most are federal goverment assistance receiving leeches. I worked my way through college, have a stable and decent paying job and members of my family say that I won "Life's Lottery" because I own a home and three Corvettes. I worked two and three jobs for over 20 years to get to where I'm at. Family be damned because they aren't feeding, ****ing me or paying my mortgage.

I'm sure Bat's is a great guy but for his father to side with some thief who did not only substandard work but left the car in dangerous condition, maybe it's time for Bat's to tell his dad to stay friends with Bubba and Son and stand up for himself. I could care less if the theif's wife cries that the ripoff business is their livelihood - she knows that her husband is taking people's trust and screwing them over.

No, this is bigger than Bats and his dad; this is a matter of ethics, legalities and a shop doing poor work that can lead to an injured or dead person. To allow wuch an operation to stay in business is beyond the pale.

If Bats wife went in for surgery and the surgeon left a sponge or clamp in his wife that caused infection and other illness that affected her health for the rest of her life, he would want that surgeon out of business before he injured another person. It's the exact same thing here, except Bubba the rip-off artist is using Bat's dad against Bats. That's low, really low for Bubba to do so. He knows he assraped Bats and doesn't want reports to the BBB made, calls to the IRS due to the "cash only" policy and the NTSB being informed of this shoddy rebuild that the mechanic allowed to be placed on public roads.

I hate crooks and I hate people who have no problem in allowing unsuspecting people to drive a dangerous car because they felt the need to cheat a novice in the car repair business.

Just call me an unforgiving hardass about such things.

 

Bats,
Just catching back up on this much updated thread. Wow, the shop actually responded and offered you a refund?
If I were you, I would hire a roll back(because it's not safe to drive), have it delivered back to the shop, and take them up on the refund. Why? Mainly because you're not happy with it, and second, I don't think they're serious or they don't think you'll do it!
However, it sounds like you're already buying parts to fix whats there, so if that's what you've decided, oh well. I think down the road, you'll regret it though. A new carb and intake will help some, but based on what I see in the pictures of the carb, I would question everything.
From the standpoint of the shop, I give them credit for getting involved in this thread and offering a refund. I appears they are serious, but they should fix what's not right to the customers satisfaction. A 383 build? perhaps But a 383 should haul a$$, I think everyone would agree with that, even a "street" motor.
Bats, keep us posted.

 

Uhhhh.... did I not say I agree with you on the mechanic issues? I do not doubt your issues with your father especially since you have now clarified those conditions. You originally made a vague statement and I did not take issue with your condition nor did I need to hear about it. If you truly have moved on with it then get over it.

I'm sufficiently well satified that you did work hard to overcome what you considered obstacles in your life but there are millions of us out there that have done the same thing. In all of your exclaiming the facts I don't here any mention of a wife or children and believe me if the fact is that you are single then you don't have a clue what some of us had in added complications.

I don't have three Corvettes but I do have a 15 almost 16 year-old daughter who can attest to what kind of parent I am. Also I have a 7200 square ft home, an XJ6 Jag, a '99 Tarus (my daughter's car), and the C4 I gave my wife for Valentines Day. Oh, did I fail to mention that they are all paid for?

I spent 40 years on the roof and am a Master Roofer as well as a musician. Beyond that I hold three degrees, one BA and two BS degrees along with, in my later years, attending two and one-half years of Law school (which HardA I also paid for myself and had drop because of serious health issues) so I'm no stranger to hard work.

Enough of this pi**ing contest, all I was trying to say politely but now see with all the crap you have gone through I need to be a little more to the point, you may have, based on your experience in life, stuck your nose in where it didn't belong with regard to someone else's parental relationship.

 

IBTL

 

I do not see any reason why to lock my thread, while it might be a more personal topic my problems with my dad are directly related to this engine build,

I also know that how I handle this will be split into two camps...those who are sure I must go get the refund and those who understand why that is simply not the least bit practical,
I respect everyone here and respect every ones opinion the only comments that are worthless are the ones posted by the people who have some case of *** with me and want to use this to scold and poke at me something that is thankfully at a bare minimum in this thread.
I guess people will put petty sht aside for bigger issues.

The falling out with my dad is odd...my wife a PhD in psychology always looks very hard at both sides when something like this pops up if for example she believes I am mistaken or need to rethink and look at something differently she addresses that with me,
But in this case my wife makes it clear that I have not been the one who needed to rethink things.

The really odd part is my dad isn't some big friend of Phil the shop owner, my dad used phil for work he didn't want to do IE oil changes, nothing big,
They do not hang out or anything, yet even after my dad said he wanted nothing to do with this he ran up to the shop to discuss it with Phil...my dad went as far as to go buy back my battery core to prove it good or bad....after testing the battery is good...yet phil told my dad it was bad....too bad phil never told me my battery was bad,
And my dad never told him it tested good...

But why didn't phil check the charging system on a car he changed an alt on and was asked to be sure the car was fit to drive 150 miles home.

I understand why some people might be pissy with me for asking the shop to fix what I can see is wrong and since they won't I need to go sue them or whatever and I wont do that.

I am doing what is right for me and my life, you would do what is right for you and your life...please respect me on it,

After all...Nancy invited any and all to call phil and talk to him about this,
If anyone calls him I do hope they keep this picture of phils work in their minds eye.



Because no matter how much we hear my side of this the shops side of this or anyones opinion on how I am handling this the end result, the pictures tell the story better than any words ever can....

 

These threads always deliver.

I understand your decision to move on Bats. The longer you drag it out the more angry and bitter you become. Sometimes it is easier/better/cheaper to just let it go.

I would, however, post the name of the shop here so we can make sure none of our friends go there. If the name is already posted then I apologize. It is the least you can do, because this guy really is a crook. I've met many mechanics similar to him. Some even highly regarded in the Corvette community!

 

Thanks James....
I bought most of the junk to fix her up and started yesterday...I also have all kinds of things to fix on the car that have nothing to do with the shop...at this point I guess it doesn't matter but I never posted the shops name, I was giving the chance to make it right...but here is the part of the shops reply that includes their number....A Google of the number.....