I know I am late to this party, but I am sorry to hear this happened.

FWIW, what I would do at this point is to take the car to a local mechanic that you know and trust (if possible). I would tell him the story (you want to be the honest one here), and tell him that I want him (because as a professional, a court will view his input as "expert testimony", but not mine since I am just a hobbyist) to document in an affadavit, what that engine is, what parts make it up, and what things he sees wrong with it. Of course, I would be willing to pay him for this service.

Where I would go next with it depends on what the mechanic says about the engine. If it really is a good engine that appears to be freshly built with a few problems like the carb set-up and the coolant leaks, I would just fix those myself (or have the aforementioned local mechanic fix them) and go back at the builder for the price difference on the cam followers and balancer. If the mechanic comes back and tells me that the engine is an old piece of crap, I sure as hell would go back at the builder on a fraud charge. $3900 is a lot of money, and can buy a pretty healthy amount of lawyer time if you need it, and some gas back and forth to the builder's area where any court case would be adjudicated.

That said, the following is supposition at best, but I can't help but get the feeling he charged you top dollar for an engine that he built from parts that were laying around his shop that he didn't know what to do with. The idea that Edelbrock carbs are such crap that some old used Holley is a better choice for the build of a brand new performance engine is ludicrous. There is also NO excuse for promising high-performance parts and then changing to a lesser part without checking with the customer first.

One more thing: the comment about how their shop is their "livelihood" is also ridiculous and doesn't mean anything. Lots of people scam other people for their "livelihood".

 

Just an FYI.....

This is strictly a civil matter that will be adjudicated in a small claims courtroom. There is no criminal prosecutor on the planet who will talk to someone regarding a transaction like this, whether or not it was fraud or incompetence. The $$ amount isn't worth the states time.

Chances are if the guy is sharp he has also himself set up to be basically creditor proof. That is easy to do........

You gotta play dirty like a pitbull......and there's plenty of ways to do that.....trust me.

But do what was suggested above and echoed by others here first.....maybe the core build was sound and the exterior trim was crap. You don't know yet.

Best of luck bud.....been there done that.

 

So had the car brust into flames from either of the known fuel leaks the shop allowed to be on the car you are saying no court would hold the shop responsible if the car had burnt up or worse we had been burnt or killed?

On the falling out with dad part of this,
I am all messed up over it but I know him well enough that if I called right now he is going to start on how I am so ungrateful of the job this shop did, being right all the time is big with my dad,
His favorite expression when I tell him this or that fact like "The sky is blue" is to reply "Well, now I don't know about that"

Lets get real, my dad is a retired jet tech for the navy after that he was a machinist, he knows the issues I have problems with and everyone on this forum agrees are real issues,

I do believe his harping on me not being thankful of the work is more of a way to swing the spotlight and save face and try to deal with the fact I got a raw deal and a raw deal from a shop he endorsed.

I sent the email to the shop what sucks is unless they reply how will I know they received it,
I will give them time to answer and dad to come down to earth, you have to keep in mind that 80% of the daily talks I would have with my dad are car/mech related, this is still too "hot" right now to jump right back on it with him.

The issues with the carb are a pisser to me too,
The Edelbrock was brand new, I have used many on persoanl cars and messed with them on friends cars...I found they worked well on all I had involvment with,
The Mech hating the Edelbrock brand doesn't justfy his installing a junker Holley made worse with the fact....to make him happy I offered to get a "NEW" holley,
And of course when HE decided not to install the fluid damper and roller tips he never should have charged me for them and should have told me.

As for the email I sent,
I basically simple asked for the Fluid damper and roller tip rockers and the items to fix the intake bolts and get the carb rigged up safe.
I feel compared to how some people would be I am being pretty cool about it.

 

That is a civil liability......your estate/insurer would have to sue and then prove negligence........and then collect. Pretty hard to do when it is all burned down and you've already touched it.

There is a guy on Ferrari-Chat, a site I have posted on for 10 years, who had his brother in law blatantly and criminally rip him off via "theft by conversion" (a type of fraud) for $50K and the state of Florida isn't interested in prosecuting. Too small a fish to fry........

If I were you and I eventually found out that my engine was not as it should have been (internals wrong, missing etc) and you're not quite there yet, we're just talking about rinky dink <$1000 stuff so far (still not good by any stretch of the imagination, but not big time yet) I'd be parked right outside his shop on the PUBLIC STREET in 48 hours where it is legal to park, and tape the work order as well as the other shops report, along with my state consumer affairs report to the window, and large cardboard lemons all over my car, and stand there with a sign AFTER someone called all the local news media and car clubs. And the way I would advise them is to have someone else call in anonymously saying......"Hey there is some guy with a beef outside Joe's garage, you gotta see that"........

I'd give him about an hours warning, enough time to get to the bank and return with some cash. And the IRS and state would also have been tipped off.....rightly or wrongly, they'd be on him regardless.

I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so this does not constitute legal advice, but rather it is how to fight back within the bounds of the law. You ever watch the flick "Pulp Fiction".......well, I've got the wallet. BMF all the way.......

 

I would get his business license number and report him to the FL attorney General website which is http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/index.html. You may be able to find his license number on the website or his receipt. Sorry to hear of your problem.

 

Personally I think this crook bought a used engine off craigslist for $500 and installed it in your car.

I think you have gotten a lot of advice on how to handle this..... some of the advice will be easy to follow and some not so easy. You are the only one whom can decide which path to take now.

I understand what you are saying about your dad and I agree with you. I don't want to cause more strife by detailing how I would handle that situation.

Good luck and my condolences.

 

You have probably received so much advice here that you are probably spinning your head now...If it were me I would stop talking to the guy's wife on the phone and show up in person. I would start by calmly telling him that you are unsatisfied with the job and tell him why/ show him the pictures...I think that I would keep working the guy in person. If he won't budge then you can look at the other options...I know you feel bad now but try to stop thinking about all of the scenarios for a night. Let us know how you work out.

 

as said, he will do only what he has to do.. he will say 'bring it in and I will work on it'.

so a several hundred mile round trip later some small thing is fixed, 3 days of your time ( you think he will work on it while you wait?) and lots of gas later... then more problems.. he will say 'bring it in and I will work on it', then another several hundred mile round trip... etc.. etc... etc... an endless cycle.

 

This has become no longer a thread, but moreover a Saga....I was wiped out after reading this whole War & Peace litany.

So Bat's, consult with a lawyer. Let him / her advise you as to your options. This may not be what you want to hear, but it will put an end to agonizing over the situation, which of itself can cause you more harm than good. At the very least call one and discuss it over the phone, as most lawyer's do not charge for an initial consultation fee.

My bottom line thought is.... you screwed the pooch on this one for any number of reasons...I will spare you any further anguish.

Stay in tune....

 

Is it really a 383? I doubt it based on everything else he didnt do.

Emailing him a link for this thread would do nothing. his customer base surely isn't on this forum.

I do not know how to get your money back or get compensated for the mess.

What I do know is go apologize to your father, in person.
He is far more important than any Corvette.

Ask Dad to go down to the shop with you and see if you can get the missing parts at the least. Either way , thank Dad for his help.


Dads 85, he wont be around for all that much longer, make the best of those years with him.

 

That is so true all the great comments and support and all different,

Going back to the shop will not work,
We already know he was to "upset/angry" I didn't call to praise him that he had the wife call me back, I go to the shop I see it being one of those situations where I am threatened to be beaten up or worse.

I could see him saying "bring it back, I will fix it"
And being that the are 150 miles away that isn't an option for this type repairs,
Many of the shade tree work I can fix myself, things like carb spring brackets and intake bolt sealer are not high dollar,
The fluid damper and roller rockers...well, I could install them if he sends me the parts or he could just refund the money I paid for those.

I sent them an email yesterday and have yet to hear back,
Hopefully they will do right by this if not I hope I can save at least one person from getting taken the way I did at this moment, of course they could still make it right.

 

Most important, reconcile with your dad, he meant well. Think what you would face for the rest of your life if you got that dreaded phone call today informing you that your dad was gone. Even though the engine issue sucks, it can be replaced. Can your relationship with your dad be corrected after he is gone?

 

I agree but sadly you missed where I posted if I was to call my dad he would just start harping again....he just doesnt drop things...had he dropped it trust me he would have called me already....

As far as the "mess" goes I am still waiting to hear back from the email I sent the shop,

 

I would love to see the Vin # on the motor in the car!!!!
Dude probably used the old block cleaned it up painted it and is trying to pass it off as new .Look at the Vin # on the front of the block whats the # should tell ya something about that part at least.
I just bought a 1983 944 porsche and did a resto for right around what that new 383 cost you .
I would at least want my money back for the parts he said he was putting on but did not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I work on all my stuff (except timing belts) and I would not do that throttle linkage on a lawn mower little own A corvette.

 

You might want to find out if the engine even is a 383.Do the bolts on the engine look like they have been messed with or replaced,every bolt on it should have been messed with.Like someone said earlier,it might be a engine from a junk yard or a engine that he had sitting around.With that type of work he did to your car,its not professional work,first thing i would do is take that engine apart and check it,i know it sounds bad,but what if he put a old engine sitting around in the garage in it.That looks like a 600 or 650 holley carb,its not big enough for a 383,you must at least have a 700 to 750 cfm.That is a junk carb alsoAnd if you paid for parts and didnt get them He will reimburst me back my money.Im so sorry for what has happened to ya,this kind of stuff burns me up,you dont mind paying for something as long as you get what you paid for Im pissed off for you.

 

I'm not going to waste time responding to the sarcastic, unprofessional remarks in your post. I am only interested in stating the facts to everyone that is so eager to judge a repair shop without knowing anything about it.
The fact is you paid $3,000 for a rebuilt 383 Stroker motor which is exactly what you got, and I encourage you to have it torn down and checked; I will be happy to pay for it if it is anything other than what you requested or paid for.

This is what you asked for, and what you now have: 383 Stroker motor with an Eagle steel crank, Eagle rods, SPS head bolts, SPS Rod bolts and SPS main bolts, new 993 cylinder heads with bowls cut with 3 angle valve job.
Additionally, you paid $142.00 for a 140 amp alternator, $132 for a high torque starter, $85 for an SPI flywheel and $100 for a chevy harmonic balancer. You claimed to have been charged for a fluid damper, but you were not. The total, installed, was $3,466.50

The carburetor, which you were not charged for, was a used one. We installed it until you could afford to get a new one since your original carburetor was bad. We gave your old carburetor back to you at the time you picked up the car.
Also, you have insinuated that we owe you rollertip rockers. The ones that we were going to install were some that we had and were going to give to you at no cost; unfortunately they would not work on your heads so we could not use them.This, however, is not an issue because you were not charged extra for rollertip rockers.We also did not charge a core deposit on block or cylider heads because they were cracked and were not reusable.

I'm going to list the parts that were installed that we did not charge you for. We did this in an effort to make it as affordable as possible, since you expressed this was important to you. Any other shop would have charged you for these parts:
Oil pan; yours was rusted
Header gaskets
Acell header plugs
Plug wire brackets
Thermostat and housing chrome
Chrome water pump
Micky Thompson valve covers
Micky Thompson air filter housing
Elderbrock Intake
Alternator belt
Power steering belt
Stock torque converter

As far as the charging problem with your car, we didn't work on the charging system. We installed an alternator which you needed, but as far as the wiring, we did not work on that. The car was here for an engine rebuild not a complete restoration. The car is not in good condition, it needs numerous things done to it but that's not why it was here and that is not what you asked for, nor is that what you paid for.

There was no fuel leak when it left here or we would have gladly repaired it. The vehicle was driven numerous times before you picked it up to make sure the mottor ran properly so that it could be safely driven back to orlando.

Your father referred you to us, he is a very nice man and has been a dedicated customer for 20 years. You stated that you needed a good price on the rebuild so we went out of our way to make it affordable for you while still giving you a quality job. I know your main concern is the way the carburetor looks, we paid $100 for the used carburetor. The choke was disconnected because it was a manual choke, again, it was installed just until you could afford to purchase a new one and you were not charged anything for that.

I called and tried to discuss this with you on the phone because you told me you didn't want to get into a heated argument with anyone or you would be in the hospital because of health issues. I respected your request and tried to discuss the situation with you. Phillip would have been glad to discuss it with you but you did not want to speak with him. When I tried to discuss it with you in a calm, professional manor, you got angry and defensive and hung up on me. I have no reason to try this again and I did not, as you claimed, in any way get "pissy" with you nor did I ever have an attitude.

As for the CASH deal everyone is voicing their misinformed opinions on, I did not insist on cash. I made it clear that I would have gladly accepted a cashiers check made out to the company name but I would not accept personal checks. The only reason that I did not want to accept a credit card on that particular invoice is because there wasn't enough profit for me to have to pay a 4% fee for accepting the credit card. Yes, you were charged tax and yes it was reported so those threats are invalid and I am not concerned with them at all.

Having stated the facts, If you feel you were "screwed," as you felt the need to tell everyone, you are welcome to bring your car back to us and we will gladly take our motor out and give you a full refund. We can easily sell the motor by itself for more than we charged you for the entire rebuild job.

We have been in business here for 20 years and have a very large, loyal customer base. We do not advertise because we do not need to; all of our business is repeat or referred from repeat customers. I am not concerned with your negative effect on this business so please do not waste your time with threats. No responses are necessary, we will not read anymore comments or be registered to this forum. The purpose of registrating was only to post the facts to those who were misinformed.

We are a small, honest, family owned business. Phillip has had a long standing reputation with his customers for his honesty and integrity since the open of the business 20 years ago. Phillip requested that if anyone would like to discuss the issue further, he can be reached at (904) 783- 6966. He would be glad to clear up any misunderstandings

 

Bat's, I think you just heard back from them.

Stay in tune...

 

Wow........Trial by Forum....You've got to love this place!

Stay in tune....

 

 

There's always two sides to a story. We just heard the other one.