Hey Bats Coop here. Ask that silly SO* if he's ever read the definition of FRAUD under Florida Statute.

I wonder if he even did anything to the engine at all, other than hang a new HB on it. Nothing on the top end even looks new, and what I saw of the linkage on the carb only Minnie Mouse would appreciate it.

Sounds to me like the County Prosecutor needs to be contacted. I haven't heard anything in the story that sounds even remotely like anything more was done than to maybe slap some paint on a sick excuse of an engine.

By the way, what happened to the money you paid for the up grades that he admitted not using. Where's your old block? You probably ended up like me and had to pay an extra $300 or so because you didn't have a core to exchange.

If the block really was cracked maybe you should consider adjoining me on the action against you know who. I can't believe that these kind of DH people get by with what they do. I know one who won't, If he lets it go to court he can believe up here he'll be lookin' at another $4000 on top of the $5822.35 in a request for punitive damages.

Last thing I'll say is check out state status on licensed mech before you hire and get a U.S.DOT number before you hire a car hauler.

 

Guys I thank one and all for all the great support and food for thought, I was really expecting a few people to really get off on my bad luck. I am most pleased that didn't happen I do have some great friends here,


I messed around a bit with it late this afternoon and in a way it just keeps getting worse, here are a couple pictures which I believe speak for themselves...




How many leaks can you spot?

I have not decided what actions I will take as of yet,
Legal in the courts, I do believe if I wanted to go that way I have a lawyer friend who would take it for free.

Going through state consumer protection affairs,
Actually that works,
I had a fellow once charge me for CV joints on a import and all he did was tighten loose bolts, the state forced him to refund my money.

I really hate to jump too high too fast if I do not need to,
Taking a bit of advice from everyone here and knowing I cannot carry on a civil phone conversation with the wife/shop secretary ( due to their placing all fault on me ) and the mech being too mad at me for not praising him to get on the phone I am thinking to be really fair I would try dropping them an Email, I will direct them to this thread, allow them to see what others think of their work...that is fair.

I will carefully list the things that are not right. ( keeping in mind they feel s right )
I will state what I feel is fair to make it all right...As far as being so upset...I do not think it is as much the monetary value placed on it as it is the "mess" and let down of paying for one thing and getting something else and the related hassles and trouble.

Of course there is nothing that can give me the piece of mind that a person deserves when they pay a person for a service,
I will always question the bottom end build.

 

I would agree with most of what was written here, except the FTF meeting. ONLY do that if you can keep your cool and even then keep it only to the key points. Otherwise do your communication by registered letters, ones that are written calmly. Also make sure anything sent to a third party (Internet, newspaper, etc.) is verifiable. Don't give this SOB a chance to come back at you.

 

Bats. take lots of pics. save your receipts. get a good lawyer!!! we gotta take a stand and put these shade tree crooks out of business!!! I'm all mad sitting here reading of your mistreatment!! man I'm so sorry to hear about this.. its not funny. like you said ,man you could have got hurt over that leaking fuel line, or the car could have died as you are pulling out into traffic... or the ZIP tie could have fell off and stuck the throttle open like a Toyota !!!! man I'm pissed...

 

You're right Neptune 75, WE do need to take a stand. Maybe this is a case where all the brothers on the forum need to chip in to a legal fund to show these kind of "smooth operators" there's a lot of us out here and we don't intend to stand by an take this any longer. I for one would be happy to chip in as I saved a bundle on my attorney on the transport guy on my C4. Yeah that's right I said C4 and with that I will spread the word on the C4 forum general discussion. The way I see it we may haunt different forums but when it all comes down to it they are all CORVETTES.


Just one brother step-up to be the treasurer and let me know who and where. and I'll put my money where my mouth is.

 

Bats,

Oh man that is one bad deal, I feel really bad for you. Heck I think I could have done better, and I have never rebuilt a engine.

If you have that lawyer friend, Before filing a case maybe just a nice call from your lawyer friend would get these folks to take you more serious. It is amazing what a call from a lawyer can do sometimes

Second, Call your Dad. Take it from me once your parents are gone, life changes. My Dad passed away way back in 1986 when I was only 19 yrs old, and I just lost my Mom this Feb. You are lucky to have your Dad in good shape at his age, Dont let this get in the way of your relationship with pops.

Hope things get better for you soon.

Mike.

 

i personally woudlnt go messing around with the motor. look, dont touch. the more you do, the more blame he can attempt to put on you.

seeing all the half assed work and throwing on wrong items, im wondering what else isnt there, or of a much cheaper quality then he said was put in.

hell, im wondering if he even drove it like he said he had. all these leaks should have started showing up when you looked at it the first time. unless they had shown up before and he just said *** it and wiped everything off.

 

Did the same guy build the engine that did all the sloppy install work? If so I think I would pull a valve cover and drop the oil pan to see what you really got. If a shop grunt did all the final bits only, maybe you still have a good motor build. Best of luck!

 

Actually, if they audit him he may end up with a bill, but no one is going to court. IRS auditors are civil.

What you want is to talk to the IRS CID (Criminal Investigation Division). You tell them that they demanded cash, which is reasonable cause for belief that they are not filing proper income. It will be very easy for them to check filings without need for something extensive like an audit.

In addition, you want to contact Florida's Department of Revenue Criminal Division as well. They can do all the things IRS CID can do, only again.

I'd have a long talk with them in person, calmly. You are allowing them to bully you because the mechanic is upset and the wife is upset. Well, too F'ing bad. You are upset too. Guess what? They will never be your friend. You can argue about the quality of the work if they want, but the fact is, they did not perform what was paid for, as well as the fact they charged you for parts you didnt get. And didnt tell you. There's plenty here for a Fraud charge with the Florida Attorney General's Office.

I would tell them nicely if you dont get the majority of your money back, your lawyer will be pressing fraud charges, and you will be asking IRS and FL CID why a mechanic needs cash payments.

The wife was concerned about their "livelihood?" I'd mention they haven't seen the damage you are going to do to their livelihood.

PS, I dont think sending this thread to them accomplishes anything. I think people on this forum are overimpressed with their influence sometimes. And the mechanic is not going to say, "oh look, these people agree with bats, we must be wrong." He will just dust you off and say your little friends are just agreeing with you. Zero accomplished.

Go the legal route. Don't let him win. I'd never let it go.

 

on the money !

 

Bats, I have been following your posts for months now, I remember how you were pretty picky on selecting your project car and how you were shopping around for the right price. you passed up several because they were a couple thousand $$ too high. I remember how you turned down so many potentials because it was not a good fit.. then I remember how you finally found your car, but had a horrible time getting it shipped and then remember how the shipper took your money and gave you excuses about why the car had not even been picked up yet. and how you asked him to return your money you paid for shipping and he promised the transaction would be reversed by such and such a date, then the date passed, no car and no reversed transaction.. more grief, then ultimately he delivered it.

now you sent your engine to some small time engine guy that come to find out was excellent at tune ups, and even a few hundred miles away, out of your local court jurisdiction.

now you are being told to initiate payback to this guy by turning him into the IRS or whatever. you are assuming that his cash transaction won't be reported. don't think he does not have cheating people all down pat. he knows what he is doing. or he will just play stupid until you go away. all he has to do is report the transaction now and he is home free. he knows you will not initiate lawsuits from hundreds of miles away, essentially spending thousands to get your thousands back... and he will eventually settle with you, but only after making you spend thousands chasing him down. if he was in the business to cheat someone because they are out of his jurisdiction, then he has done it more than once and he knows exactly what he can get sway with and what he cannot.

you are essentually making bad choices in your project and you are taking years off of your life with all worrying and the side issues going on.

how many out here have actually taken a guy to court and won? and don't start about the ' its the principle ' thing. are you willing to spend thousands in time and travel to jacksonville, multiple times , and write letters to tax agencys hoping they will fine him? that is too much work for the small chance he will get his minor fine and reprimand...
this is way too much work that steers your time away from your project.

1. do all your work yourself.
2. never trust small shops without a long list of references.
3. only pay for what you absolutely cannot do.
4. never pay cash, credit cards transactions can always be challenged
5. you knew it was getting fishier and fishier by all your conversations with the shop. you had all the signs but ignored them.
6. for the money you could have bought a turn key crate setup
7. if it is not a national chain store, then do your business locally.

but still thanks for sharing your story. it opens up a lot of folks to watch out for issues like this

 

Hey Bats,sorry to hear of this.I think that it would be wise to drop the pan on your motor and make sure that it is even a stroker,or 383.There is a good chance that it might not be.The sad but true part is that if a mech is gonna cheat you,he is probably gonna cut all corners.(Assuming that you would never know to look.)I hope I'm wrong ,but I've seen this stuff before.(It still burns me to see some one get robbed!)It's sad that you can't get what you pay for!
Keep us informed!

 

Hey Bats
Money aside it just maddening to see that kind of work out of someone that calls themselves a mechanic. Keep us posted on the outcome.

 

Guys once again I really do thank each and every one of you and each and every opinion and view point on the issue, it does give me all kinds of different ways to think about this some of what you guys say I fully agree with other stuff I did not. but it is all food for thought.
I am not "mad" I am disgusted...in myself and in the shop....some of you pointed out how **** I was about some things and you are correct, then I throw caution into the wind and listen to "dad" and end up in this sitiation.
What I would like to do is stay well grounded,

I like to keep the facts as facts and try not to speculate, it seems as the smoke starts to clear the real problems the shop did that we know of as fact are skin deep,
Example the carburetor rigging is a mess, it's shade tree and just plain unsafe.
Busting my old fuel filter.
The intake does have coolant leaks.
The fact I agreed to and paid for a fluid damper and received a stock balancer,
The roller tip rockers were something he told my dad were for my car and then learned wouldn't fit when we look past how stupid that sounds he owes me toller rockers that do fit my car.
After that it is just a few detail type things.

I agree about the court route is a hard road and shop who are out to cheat know this and see it as being on their side.
On the other side of that coin while I do not recall the agencies name there is a state run outfit that when I was cheated on CV joints they did contact the shop and did get me a refund with nothing more than letters sent.

As far as IRS and this shop demanding cash,
Let me clarify that, they didn't want my bank/credit card saying the interest rate was high for them
Then when I asked about a personal check they said not on this amount.
I have no idea about their taxes and do not want to know.

I hear you vettebuyer on the directing them to this thread would mean nothing to them your point is good, it's just my buddies siding with me who cares....I have to disagree with you and allow me to explain why.

I posted pictures of their work, I have not touched the carb at all, the spring the leaks the zip tie is all the way they handed the car to me,
No one here believes that is the right way to set up a carb and no one in their right mind would pay a shop to do that, ( remember I thought they were top end )
While only about 50 people have replied about how "shade tree" that is 750 plus at this point have read this thread seen the shoddy work,
I didn't mention their shops name at this point hoping I can get them to stand behind their mistakes , if I did include the shop name in no time that would pop up if a person Googles their shops name,

While I am not out for blood I just want what I paid for I do believe that while perhaps the mech is mad and embarrassed he knows this wasn't right and that when he sees it very well might cost him business and at the very least make him look shade tree he will drop the anger and ego trip and make it right, that is of course assuming he is a good fellow who just made a few mistakes...not someone in the business to cheat.

I did ask and he is not the only mech there, it is very well possible that the engine bottom end is built very well and the parts we are seeing are the ones some shop flunky did,

As soon as I post this I am going to write the letter to the shop, I am going to direct them here, it does give a different view on things,
If they stand behind it then it was mistakes if they do not then they were out to cheat me.

I will let you guys know.

 

Since they offered such a good price on the rebuild, offer to send the engine back for a full refund. This way they will be able to resell the engine because of the great savings on the rebuild, and you would be out of the money to have the engine removed and shipped. I also believe all future communications should be in writing and sent certified mail. Good luck!

 

Florida statutes have very strict guidelines set up for sales tax reporting to the Florida Dept of Revenue, It’s Impossible to go back and correct fraudulent returns that have been filed monthly and change bogus or improper sales invoices that are now in the hands of customers. These investigators do this 40+ plus hours a week, they’ve seen it all and are good at it. It is their profession. They know how to correlate purchases vs sales etc, etc, and if it looks suspicious, they just dig deeper and deeper. They do this because it is not just a minor fine, but in many instances they have recovered $30,000.00 on up to hundreds of thousands. For example the late monthly filing fee starts at a base of 50 bucks, even if you had no taxable sales at all. Florida has no state income tax and this is one of their prime sources.
All it takes is a letter with a copy of a bill with no sales tax itemized (if that is the case, Bats didn’t address that). The only reason people get away with it is because they haven’t been addressed yet, not because they are smarter than the system, they aren’t. In this economy, especially here in Florida, all agencies are scrambling for revenue and are addressing issues that have been ignored for many years.

I supplied some info for a guy that got an engine from a Florida business, not as described, some accessories missing etc. It was also long distance. No travel involved, the guy ended up with full restitution (engine ended up free to him) and the owner of the business is heading to jail for fraud. It only cost the guy a few letters and phone calls to the sheriffs department. Once the cops started digging, lots of things showed up, especially if they suspect he lied to them, then anything can happen, even the seldom enforced, such as EPA laws.

I do agree with you that guys like this do get away with a lot, but the biggest reason is that customers don’t persue it and/or don’t know how to. Calling a lawyer isn’t always the most financially feasible method. The key here is that laws may have been broken (damper, rollers, etc).

Bats
It may be worth dropping the pan and checking to see if it really is a stroker as promised.
Take lots of pics and maybe write up a nice congenial letter with pics addressing how you would like to remedy this situation. Perhaps ask for itemized listing of parts included etc. The linkage etc, although cheezy and annoying isn’t big bucks, but the coolant leak and dead battery problem can be. My guess is you will have to show receipts for real repairs after giving them an opportunity for at least monetary resolve. Physical repair is out of the question simply because of the fact he is proud of this stuff.
As mentioned in another post, do it all certified mail, return receipt. This also shows that you are a little more serious than just the phone calls.
Above all, don’t stick your foot in your mouth, someone may be reading your correspondence someday to base a legal decision.

 

I hear you and no foot in mouth here,
You know I have a gut feelings on all this and I know many times "wishful thinking" can be mistaken for gut feelings and intuition,
I believe the lower end is okay.

I believe the Mech has a big ego to the point of it being a problem, ( He expected a call to thank and praise him...yet I do not recall him or his wife thanking me for the money )
I believe that is combined with anger control issues and some poor communication skills
Made this get way too ugly too quick,
In other words I do not believe that there is any right way to critique this fellows ( or whatever mech at his shop ) did the crappy work on my car.

Like I said before and being fair the car did run from Jacksonville to Orlando really well,
The low quality stuff is surface...and the lack of getting the damper and rockers I was promised,
Think about how easy this would be for them to fix and make me happy,

I am sending an email out to them and I am optimistic,
I will post how it turns out.

 

In like Flynn, baby

I can probably get to you in < 1 hour, Bats.

I hate to hear this chit especially because I know how meticulous you were about finding the right car. Why didn't you look around Orlando for a builder just out of curiousity? There are plenty of very talented shops around you.

Sounds like the builder was intentionally vague and undocumented at every step to cover his slipshod azz. Do you have anything other than "Engine rebuild" on the invoice? Is the displacement written anywhere? A healthy 383 should run like a raped ape, but I too am thinking you got a tired old 350 out of his beater truck.

And who is this? Open a file with the BBB if you haven't already. I'm in Jacksonville quite often. I would love to pay this shop a visit.

 

One more thing. You need to find a really good reputable shop, maybe even a dealership. Have them look at it all and give you a list of deficiencies with no prompting from you(don't point them out), have them test drive it too. Have them write out thier honest appraisal of the rebuild. That may cost a few bucks, but will give an unbiased third party report of at least the obvious things. If you want to go farther a compression check and leak down test will tell even more. The more documentation the better, and if you wind up in court I believe those costs can also be recouped possibly. Good Luck Man!!

 

that is some shoddy work, cannot believe he rigged the carb linkage like that.

Father's are often hard headed and think they always know best. I would be a bit miffed as well, but at the end of the day he's family and it's water under the bridge.

At least now you know what needs to be fixed. I'd make sure you didn't pay for that fluid damper, if you did you can recoup close to $500 right there depending on the model he charged you.

Best of lick bro