Hi everyone I'm looking for a 4 speed C3 between 68 and 71. Don't care about numbers matching just looking for the most reliable ride and want to know what pitfalls to avoid. Right now I know what to look out for as far as the bird cage is concerned and will be looking for a complete interior in good shape with good paint. Any other C3 specific item that I should be looking out for or year to avoid?

 

You are going to hear the usual list everyone likes to post, so I'll leave it to them. However, I'm going to point out that just because you aren't interested in numbers matching, do not forget that this is directly tied in to value. Dont let your disinterest in this allow you to be lazy when you buy; use it as a tool to get the best deal you can find.

 

Vettebuyer has an excellent point, you need to know about numbers even if you're not interested, so you don't pay too much for a numbers matching car, when that doesn't matter to you.

 

check the C3 for sale section here!

 

Don't get me wrong I understand there is value in numbers matching I'm just not interested and can't really afford the extra premium for a numbers car. I'm looking to spend between 17K to 25K for a cpe or vert. My requirement is that the car needs nothing or very little work. Are all 68s to 71s more or less the same when it comes to mechanical reliability?

 

What's wrong with the 72's!?

 

Nothing at all, actually let me expand my selection to 72. I like all vettes just going for the chrome bumbers all around.

 

Well 72's have that, 73 is when they removed the chrome bumper from the front and kept it in the rear. Then of course, 74's had no chrome bumpers at all.

Good luck!

 

The '72 car is almost identical to the '71...except that the "spec" sheet shows lower HP/torque on the engine. Fact is, the engines were almost identical, but the "spec" got changed to 'SAE net' HP instead of 'SAE gross' HP. No real difference. And, because of this and the fact that so many folks don't understand it, the '72s sell for less money! [lucky you!!]

 

If you're looking to get in at a lower price, looking for a driver, a non numbers matching may work out for you. There's a premium paid for 'numbers matching' which you'll need to be aware of. How much difference in price depends on who you ask, which side of the divide they're on. Best I can suggest is to look for non numbers which have sold, see what they went for. I know of at least one non numbers which sold a Carlisle last year for around $15K. Heard there were a few buyers interested. Your price range may be about right for a very clean or well restored NOM.

Even if you were looking for numbers, there are many out there which have matching numbers but are not original. Once people began to pay a premium price for numbers scammers began to restamp blocks to match... Still need to do your homework, be very careful.

So far as reliability goes, probably about the same. The 68 has many unique parts. If you go for one, get one which is in top shape, shouldn't have a problem.

I wouldn't discount a 72. Maybe you should buy a book which covers the C3s? There were differences throughout the years 68 - 72. Maybe there's a year which you would favor?

 

 

72 would actually be my first pick... only because I looked at an Ontario Orange one as a kid in 1972 and I couldn't afford it at the time, 69 if I was looking for three carburetors. The 68s are better suited for the historians now, IMO. Very generally speaking numbers cars tend to be in the better overall condition simply because you are dealing with a fussy owner. NOM cars can never be original again or the previous owners were not concerned about keeping them original which means anything goes. You would have to be a good detective to try to discover all the deviations from original or you are risking buying a car that will be hard to sell to someone else later.

 

IF we're talking about a NOM, a Corvette with a replacement (restoration) engine, kept pretty much as it was originally, I have to disagree.

I've seen 'numbers' cars which were heavily modified with the thought "I'll keep the original parts so the next guy can put it back to original" and have seen NOMs which are well kept. Owners of NOMs are not necessarily people who don't care about their vehicle or ones who routinely abuse them. I've heard of people going to extremes to save a piece of junk engine block only because it has numbers on it. I do not believe the fact the vehicle is a NOM means it is probably inferior quality or poorly kept as you imply. A buyer has to do their homework and not blindly chase numbers.

So far as never being original again... there are people out there who really don't care. I personally couldn't care less if it's 'original' or 'restored' unless we're talking about a low mileage original. In that case driving it slowly reduces it's value. Best to keep it as a trailer queen.

As a previous poster said, a buyer shouldn't be lazy when searching for a vehicle. Each vehicle should be evaluated on its own, numbers or not. I'm sure there are gems as well as POS out there in either category.

This could apply to a 'numbers' vehicle as well as a NOM. The fact the block has the VIN derivative say nothing about the 'correctness' of the rest of the car. Absolute originality matters most to hardcore collectors. If this fellow is looking to buy a Corvette more reasonably priced than one with 'numbers', he's not going to be looking to sell to a collector in the future. I can say from personal experience having owned a NOM, I had absolutely no problem selling it. I bought the car at a price adjusted for being a NOM and sold it later for a fair price. I've heard the warning about NOMs being hard to sell before and frankly see it as scare tactics. Yes, hard to sell to a collector. If it was bought at a NOM price it should sell for a NOM price.

Bottom line is the buyer needs to understand the market so far as pricing goes and buy right be it a numbers or a NOM. He/she also needs to know exactly what they are looking at to determine where it fits in the market.

If we're talking about a NOM which has been greatly modified, transplant of a modern motor or upgrade to a motor the car never came with, etc. THAT I would agree with as being a difficult market to judge since the car deviates quite a bit from what GM typcially built. It then becomes a matter of personal taste.

 

My mistake, I should have said "non-matching" meaning little or no effort to preserve originality rather than NOM.

 

I would like to debate some of your views, however:

That is a true statement. a NOM car is simply a lower cost way to participate in the history and interest of a particular model. Saving an original block is probably worth the effort. Because so many were commonly blown up over the years any Corvette that still has it's original engine should be more highly valued which is why they are. This by no means denigrates the NOM cars nor suggests they are not desireable cars but a Corvette is only original once and since originality is now rare it deserves special recognition.



Another true statement, which is why we have viable markets for all Corvettes including non-matching cars, NOM cars as well as all original cars which also suggests why we have separate auctions for Friday evening to separate those cars from the Saturday afternoon cars.

Now we're getting down to it. Original means Chevrolet was the last to touch it, an unmolested Corvette with no previous owner "amateur engineering" or unapproved homeowner garage assembly techniques. Unless you are dealing with a well known shop with an established reputation "restored" has always represented a huge unknown. Even the best restorations are usually not totally authentic especially when it comes to internal engine components. The body work might be impeccable while at the same time they hope you will overlook the Chinese pistons with cut down compression and a Steak-N-Shake cam.


No one is suggesting they are hard to sell. You sell them to a different market with a different set of values is all

Yep!

 

Don't be drawn in to new interiors and paint. Many cars are bought and then "restored" to this level. Could be nothing more than lipstick on a pig. I would be much more concerned about all the mechanical items and underbody issues that you can't see just walking around the car. Just my 2 cents.

 

There's really no practical reason to build one of these things up and swap in a hot rod engine.

If you want a fast car get a new Z06 and you will never worry again about what cam to put in your '70 model 454. For that matter even the '01 Z06 which is now very cheap will run circles around whatever you did to a C3 and for many thousands less... and you won't have something that matters much if you manage to tear it up.

 

We may not be all that far apart...



Not so sure on this point. I followed a thread recently where a fellow was offering to return the original block for a Corvette which had been bored 60 over and raced. IMO this block is nearly worthless. It may be original to some vehicle but I'd say very low quality unless the owner wants to sleeve it. Only difference between this and one which was chucked in the old days is there was no value attached to an original block back then, it was spent and discarded. From a practical point of view I'd rather have a 'correct' block which wasn't treated as this one was. My take is the perceived value comes from blindly chasing numbers.

Yup, agree. Question is how many are truly original? It's a rather abused term much like numbers matching. A better label may be survivor. A truly rare car is certainly worth a premium, no doubt. One which is called such only because it has a serial number on the block, not necessarily.

What auction are you referring to? Is it viewable on TV or on the web?
Results anyway. I've been interested in seeing first hand what cars from the two classes are selling for these days.

OK, another reason a low mileage original should command a higher price. No debate there. Again, numbers matching alone does not say anything about this.

So far as restorations go, yes, beware, do your homework, still much that can go undetected. I've been there. My 70 had a 'rebuilt' engine with receipts when I bought it. A short time later I had to take it out and rebuild it properly. If an owner is restoring to flip the car you can bet they will invest in only what you can see and cut corners elsewhere. If the seller has owned the car for several years or longer there may be less risk of this. Assumption the owner didn't buy it to make a fast buck. However a true low mileage original should be quite pricey. The restoration may be the only affordable option for many.


I agree though I believe you did make a remark about possibly having a hard time selling later on...

 

Couldn't agree more. I'd probably ask how long the owner has held the car. If they haven't had it long and it's restored, why are they selling it? I suspect quite often for a fast buck. Been there.. I'm in the process of refurbishing (not a true NCRS restoration)mine, focussing on all the mechanical issues first, paint and pretty parts come last. I'm doing it for myself, not to make a fast buck.

Put the car on a lift, look it over top to bottom. Enlist someone knowledgeable on Corvettes if needed.

 

My mistake and I did attempt to correct it above. I meant to say non-numbers cars would probably be harder to resell later not meaning to infer anything about a NOM car. I agree a NOM car can mean a restoration engine where a thoroughly involved and enthusiastic owner has continued to keep the rest of the car correct. I would be just as interested in this car as any original car.

The old overbored blocks can be saved now with new technology. I have personally used this method and can vouch for the reliability and durability of it.

http://web.zzuhl.com/sumebore.html

I sometimes wonder if the efforts of those who chase numbers isn't sometimes a "me-too" to get in the game and maybe cash in alongside those who enjoy all the accolades, recognition and rewards that comes from having a completely original car?

Of course it could be the thrill of the chase also, to see if you can find all the missing parts and return the car to what it once was. I see this as a noble goal