Im in the market for a '68-72 C3 and have found a few that I like that are also within reasonable driving range of where Ill be but have come to a crossroads. My top pics now are an original '69 350/4spd/coupe in great condition($17,500), a NOM '72 with a 350/4spd/coupe ($12,500) and an original '70 350/4spd Vert that needs paint and some interior work for $14,500. I know this alone isnt enough to determine value but hopefully it gives you guys an idea of what Im considering. Mainly Im looking for some incite from fellow Corvette owners to how you came to decide. For what its worth this wont be a show car just a nice driver I can have some fun with.

 

Best car for what you can afford. How long will you keep it? I personally wouldn't be worried about a NOM car in good condition at a good price. That 70 vert is going to be costly once you figure in paint and interior, you'd be better off with the '69 if it is in great condition than the '70 in my opinion. You'll be in the "70 for what the '69 costs at the end of the day and the '69 can be enjoyed from day one.

Which do you want? coupe or convertible? For just a nice driver, there's nothing wrong with something like your '72 if it is in good shape. Lot's of money left over for any unknowns.

 

Hopefully you want "insight" although Forum members have been known to incite plenty !

As said, buy the best car you can afford. And, a few more dollars for an original motor is worth more than cosmetics. While I believe in paying for cosmetics, its possible to buy new paint and interior. It is not possible to buy an original engine... that value will never be available again.

NOMs are poor investments,although it's an option if you are on a low budget.

 

Many on this forum will tell you that all these cars are lousy investments, that you should not worry about how you spend your money and just do whatever you please with a car...don't worry, be happy. Unfortunately, for the rest of us...we do worry about how much of our toy money we will ever get back. Notice I am talking about return OF investment, not return ON investment. The former has been growing smaller and the latter is now off the radar screen. You are wise to be thinking about these things before you buy.

Vettebuyer has some good advice. Buy the best car you can afford, one that needs the least done to it before you can enjoy driving it. Pay for it now or pay for it later. These cars vary widely in the price of admission, but the overpriced goodies at the concession stand pretty much cost the same for everybody..they quickly add up and can total more than your ticket to ride. Enjoy the show!

 

I agree with what's been said so far, and it really depends on what you what.

The 69 is right about it's top value point, so for that price, it should be in very nice condition. If there is anything wrong with it, I would question the price.

The 72 is right at the price you would expect for a NOM in nice condition.

The 70 convertible has quite a bit of upside. A nice, original engine, driver 70 vert should easily be in the $20-$25 range. So there is room there for paint, and a new interior. But if it needs those things, what's the shape of the rest of the car?

If you want a convertible, I'd make dang sure it only needs paint and a new interior. And, if that's the case, it's not a bad deal.

If you don't care about getting a convertible, then I would go with one of the coupes. The real difference I believe between the coupes is what you plan to use it for. If you want a car for weekend cruising, and a car you can pampler, go with the 69. If you want something that looks nice, but you don't have to worry about when you drive it, go with the 72.

 

Hi ab,
I agree with many of the points that have been made.
My addition is to think long and hard about a coupe OR convertible!!!
Yes, the coupe's roof panels come off, but it's still VERY different than a convertible.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

 

really, buy something you don't have to paint. you will be down several thousand, and down a couple of months...
you can get your money back for a NOM car and you don't have to worry about nursing the engine along. Just pay the right price.

you don't have to worry about whether or not it is truly the original engine either...

 

Bingo. When all the dust settles, you want to be driving the one you wanted all along.

Have you heard that little voice in the back of your mind saying "This is the one..."

 

there is such fraud out there on "original" stuff buyer beware.....remember in cars you are only one accident away from your "original" not being original and getting your virginity back is hard to do....and its easy to get upside down in these cars. sounds like you have three good choices, also only you know if you want a vert or t top car....

 

As far as t-top and verts go on C3s-is there an obvious "feel" while driving either? Personally Im leaning towards the coupe as Ive never been into verts of anything but I suspect Ill have to wait about another week til I get to the states so I can actually drive a few different ones before I can make a sure decision.
Thanks for all the input so far btw.

 

Also as long as I check the chassic VIN to see if it goes along with the "original" engine's numbers is there still room to debate on whether its the true original?

 

original engine numbers could have been ground off and restamped onto another block, theres all sorts of info out here about how that science works. it the best against the best nowadays..

but do you only require the engine block to be original? what about the carb, heads, intake, exhaust, wheels, glass, interior, transmission, rear end?? what is your definition of original?

just because the block has correct numbers ( original or non original restamped) does not mean it has the original heads, intake, tranny, etc.

 

That is why unrestored or unmolested cars are held in such high regard. Old fart experts, who have been involved with these cars all their lives, can look at a car and tell you if the engine has ever been out of the car. 42 years of dirt, grease and rust hide nothing. Call it automotive forensics. An experienced engine rebuilder can tell if an engine has ever been apart or messed with. Same with trannys and rear ends. Once stuff has been cleaned, replated, polished and repainted...lost it's patina...then it is much harder to tell exactly what you have on your hands. It certainly is no longer original...but it MAY be as originally produced...sort of.

 

Well when you consider it like that it seems kinda pointless to take the risk and spend a few more grand for a supposedly numbers matching car. I plan on keeping the car forever and modifying it to my liking so I might be better off with a nom C3.

 

Don't buy a 'numbers matching' car if you don't want to keep it that way. Also, a car that does not have a matching engine is no problem if the rest of the car isn't completely original, anyway. But, a non-matching car will be significantly less expensive, and the engine (being newer) may be in better condition, as well.

Only go with a numbers matching car if you really want one and wish to keep it that way. Otherwise, save the money or just get a car in better condition.

DO NOT buy a car the "needs paint" unless you can do the painting yourself...or you have a lot of money (and from your post, it doesn't seem that that's the case). Having someone else paint the car is expensive and troublesome. Get one with a good paint job or one with a 'decent' paint job that just has some minor blemishes which you can 'touch up'.

 

My take...

I'd say much depends on whether you're interested in restoration or looking for a driver which you may possibly modify. If restoration to original is your goal, originality is very important. There is a way around this if you find a date correct block and restamp. It's been done many times unfortunately. This raises ethical questions and is another hot topic. An 'original' will often cost more than a NOM in comparable condition. To maximize the value of an ‘original’ the car must be kept as it was built. No color changes or upgrades and lots of documentation if it’s a high value version, LT1, LS5, LS6, etc..

So far as values go, opinions vary depending on which side of the divide you are on. Many who bought a 'numbers' car in the last few years probably paid a premium for them with the expectation of getting a much better return in the future. This has been true up until recent years when the economy crashed. I suspect there may be many who may be further under water today with a 'numbers' car if they bought at the peak a few years back. Values may come back or may not, pretty much speculation. So far as NOMs go, I've seen some sell for far more than the numbers people predict they should. I've never seen any reliable data on how much an average NOM actually sells for compared to a 'numbers' car in comparable condition. It's pretty much speculation. The majority of Corvettes listed for sale are ‘numbers’ cars, tough to get a feel for what the average sales price for comparable NOMs may be. Raises the question did only a small number of Corvettes have an engine changed in the last 40 years +/-? I believe it's true, historically, that a true original will go for more but how much more depends on many factors. On the other side, if NOMs never gained in value there should be some pretty nice ones out there for virtually free. If the actual difference in % appreciation over a period of years for a numbers vs a NOM is small, you may do as well taking the difference in purchase price and investing the money elsewhere. It’s possible you may do even better if the investment earns a better return than the car does, diversifying. Another question is whether the trend will continue indefinitely? The cars are growing quite old. Will they be practical to drive much in future years with their stock drive trains? Will fuel become an issue? How about quality parts? These are some reasons why a modern drive train transplant may become more desirable in the future if the car is going to be driven.

Whether you buy an 'original' or a NOM, the advice to buy the best car you can find is sound. There are gems as well as pieces of junk in either category. The presence or lack of numbers alone doesn't guarantee anything wrt the quality of the car.

If you're planning to keep the car only for a short term, maybe just a few years, I can't imagine the difference in appreciation is going to amount to that much money if anything at all depending on market conditions and how great a deal the buyer got when the car was purchased. For a long term restoration project, the difference may be more significant. In that case I can see the difference in resale price helping offset if not pay for the restoration, providing the buyer is interested in preserving the car in the exact configuration it was built.

I don’t believe a ‘numbers’ car is the best choice for all buyers regardless of their goals. If your interest is in vintage Corvette restoration, maybe shows, originality is the way to go. If your interest is in a restomod, a numbers car may not be appropriate. A NOM may be an option for those who want a high end drive train but can’t afford the high prices for an original or aren’t interested in spending that much money. As others have said, there’s more risk driving a high end original compared to a NOM. An accident or damage to key engine components may wipe out a lot of the added value.

 

Ok.. here we go:

So- the whole NOM vs Matching.. ya know, when these cars were first built, no one really gave considerable thought to whether or not when an engine had issue as to whether changing it would hurt the value later. It's not until the last 10 years or so that the whole numbers matching "thing" has gotten twisted out of hand.

Yes --- cars that are truly numbers matching.. and i mean validated, verified and most likely NCRS vehicles are going to increase substantially and could be considered appreciating investments...

HOWEVER ---

I've seen some "matching" cars that are in **** condition. And the cost to fix them would exceed the ultimate value. For $12 - $14k, the net difference in the value isn't worth fretting about.

There's also something to be said about "numbers correct" vs "matching". Is the NOM your looking at have a Vette Engine from the same year? Not uncommon. Some of these engines there was no way to "rebuild" so they HAD to be replaced. Just reality. I would not get too hung up on the NOM thing -- you just need to decide how far NOM is acceptable. Is an engine from the same era ok? Will you accept a new crate motor; Or is the absolute original motor the only thing you'll allow.

If you're buying an LT-1.. then matching is probably more important. Base 350.. ehhh.. not gonna matter much. A nice Vette is a nice Vette.

I can assure you.. the cost of putting these cars "right" is not inexpensive. I would buy the car in the best possible condition in the color you like and try to stay as close to original as you can -- but some stuff may have to give.

good luck with it.

 

I would go with a car that doesn't need paint..paint jobs price can range in maaco price or more than a house..I would really have to want that one!! When I got my car nom or nm wasn't really a big deal..we bought the car we liked..I found after that the car was about as original as a car could be..even have the original keys and all titles..so I really can't touch the car..as stated many value original and I am a history type guy..so I am enjoying a car that is original..I would love to pop a new bb crate engine in it and have a blast but really can't do it!! What I am getting at is I got a nice car and love it..make sure when you make your choice that you know what you want..and are buying..an investment or a toy you plan to enjoy and do whatever you want to..either one you pick..make sure you check the entire car over before you buy it..suspension.. rear..trans..really all the other stuff the seller either doesn't know or tell you a about can add up to a good bit of money!! Have fun with the chase!!

 

To cut to the chase, the vert needs a paint job and they're asking $14,500. While the value of the vert, when restored would be in the mid $20s, the paint job will probably cost you a minimum of $10k. That's because you will wind up replacing weatherstripping, doing some minor body work and re-chroming bumpers and grille trims as part of your paint job. I had my 69 coupe repainted for $8,500 and put another $1,500 into the things mentioned above. Anyway, when you do the interior refurbishment, you'll be financially upside down in the vert. If the 69 coupe is really nice and numbers matching, the $17,500 price tag is very fair. I would have expected it to be around $20,000. IMHO, I'd go with the 69. Besides, it has gills!

 

To me, a big part of the decision would be....


Going to drive it? Then DO NOT opt for original!