A friend of mine is looking at a '72 LT-1. The car has a CE block. I've done my fair share of verifying numbers on cars that are supposed to be numbers matching (verifying VIN derivitive, suffix code etc), but I'm not very familiar with CE blocks. Can someone please decode this for me?

 

Its a dealer replacement block. I believe it stood for Chevrolet Engine.

Might have been installed when the original owner blew up the original engine while under warranty.

A CE block is not an original motor, it is not numbers matching of any kind. Dont let a seller tell you otherwise. CE= NOM.

 

Thanks Steve. The car does have the "L" in the VIN so it was an LT-1 originally. I was hoping the stamp would at least have an LT-1 suffix code or date it was built to indicate that it was in fact a CE block for a '72 LT-1 as opposed to say a '65 pickup truck or something. I guess you're right though, NOM is NOM.

 

I don't think that's a CE block. Going off the information from this website the TBX suffix decodes to an engine that was originally built as a 350 CI for a 1970 van or a 1979 truck. Because of the small stamp pad my guess is it came from the 79 truck.
Hope this helps.

 

CE engines didn't come with a typical engine plant/date/machine code stamp and certainly didn't have a VIN derivative!

'79 truck as this has the 'square style' pad.

 

This stamp pad is from my 78. Shape appears similar to yours not like earlier pads:

 

Small pad 79 truck motor

 

You guys are great. I'm going to advise him to walk away

 

I would not let a NOM CE or not be a deal breaker. unless they want way to much for the car, and the overall condition of the car is really bad

 

There are lots of non original cars running around.
The price, however, should reflect the overall package.
Regards,
Chuck

 

????? Why would anyone pay the money for an "original" LT-1 car if it didn't have the "original" LT-1 engine? If the car sells for a 'reasonable' premium for the LT-1 hardware, so be it. But real LT-1 money? No way...

 

Exactly. Its just like all the gyrations you hear about people trying to determine if a car "was originally" a big block, because it has a NOM in it now. Who cares? Its kinda interesting that it was born a big block or an LT-1, but the fact is if it has an NOM now, its not worth any more than any other NOM unless the buyer's plan is to install a re-stamped motor and pass it off as original.

And as to the photo, I answered the OP's CE question but yes, as people have noted, that small square pad is not the style you would see on that model year car anyway, its clearly later.

 

I would love to have an original LT-1 with replacement engine to run around, have fun and not worry about its correctness. My next C3 will be an LT-1 convertible, NOM

 

I have to disagree as I've said in other posts, maybe what you are referring to. From a collectors point of view a NOM is a NOM is a NOM, all relatively worthless since they're no longer collectible. From a driver's point of view, someone who buys Corvettes for function rather than antique value I see original configuration being somewhat significant depending on what the interests of the buyer may be. If the buyer is interested in a big block or LT1 Corvette but doesn't care whether it has the original block, I'd say the car which was configured as such originally has slightly more value since it will have all the correct parts as they were configured. Sure, somebody could convert a garden variety small block, gather all the parts to create a big block or LT1 configuration but I see this as unlikely unless they also install a restamp to pass off as original. Either way, I see a NOM big block which is configured correctly as being more valuable than a small block car which bubba dropped a big block into with small block springs, radiator, yokes, etc. Seen this in the past with other makes, often a poor quality car. The factory didn't designate different parts for use on LT1s or big blocks for no reason.

How much more value? I'd say at least the cost of the parts which are different. Not nearly the difference in price we'll see for a 'numbers' car vs a NOM but some difference. Exception being a buyer who is interested in a garden variety small block. In this case the heavier duty parts are irrelevant.

So far as restamps go, it's done quite often on the higher value cars regardless of what their original configuration was. It has been proven on this forum under the thread which lists POPs being found.

My only interest in Corvettes is functional, for driving. If it has the original block, cool, but for me it's never been crucial. Of course price being asked must be reasonable depending on what the market conditions are currently, original or NOM.

 

Nope. TBX indicates a truck block. No disrespect, but an LT-1 without the LT-1, is no longer an LT-1.

Stamp beneath the engine stamp is the VIN deriviative of the vehicle the TBX was originally installed in. It is not a Corvette VIN.

 

I have to agree with Easy Mike here. An LT-1 (RPO code right?) is all about the engine. If it is gone...it might as well be a base model automatic.

If I truly did not care about originality, and wanted an "LT-1" or Big Block, I'd go out and find the cheapest base model car, slap a BB in it with the right hood and there you go....instant BB. I never understood why someone would pay BB or LT-1 money for a car w/o the original engine.

This was not meant to argue that a NOM is not of value. Some love them and that is great! In my opinion it is simple, do not pay BB or LT-1 money for a NOM.

Have a great day! John

 

Sorry, have to respectfully disagree again. Strikes me as many here completely ignore the different parts spec'd for BB cars beyond styling or the engine itself. The car you describe I view as Bubba's BB. Wrong size radiator, wrong radiator support, wrong springs, no stabilizer, wrong yokes, etc. Tach and tag on the console aren't important to the reliability or feel of the car but the other parts I believe are.

Yes, you can buy the cheapest base model car and chase down all the parts. I'd rather buy a car which had the parts there already. The price difference between the "cheap base model" and another already fitted with the correct parts for a BB may just be the cost of the parts plus labor to install. Not nearly as much as the difference between what an 'original' SB and original BB sell for but I see a small difference in value.

So far as the car never being a BB or LT1 car again I see as purely the collector POV. The LT1 or LS5 were option packages which are spelled out in the AIM. Anybody can build one if they wish. Call it a clone, a phony or what ever other put down one may wish, it still looks and drives exactly as an 'original' for a lot less money.

Point is IMO there is a small value added if a buyer wants a BB and
doesn't care about the original iron. May be only $500 to $1000, still a difference.

 

I don't understand this at all .....????

Why would it have to be an LT-1 ???? without the correct motor who cares .........it could be a non LT-1 car what difference does it make ? The motor is what makes an LT-1 vs a non LT-1 so ??????

...... !!!!

 

I think he's saying he's not concerned whether the motor is original, just wants an LT1. If it's a NOM with an engine configured as LT1 it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy and is renewable should anything happen to it. Call it a clone, tribute, replica, what ever. If it's done correctly it should provide the identical driving experience as an original though it won't have collector value, really a driver.

So far as a car which was originally built with an LT1, as I've said in other posts the advantage would be the parts which are unique to the LT1 package would be there already, no need to chase them down. The value of this vs a generic Corvette I see as being at least the cost of the different parts if the owner had to chase them down individually.

I'm not familiar with what exactly went into the LT1 package so I have no idea how many parts are different, cost to replace, availability, etc.

An LT1 car with a NOM engine can do well in NCRS flight judging IF the correct parts are used and date codes line up within reason.

Going another path, a NOM Corvette could be updated with a modern engine and probably kick the butt of most of the vintage packages should the owners interest be in restomods, not original in appearance. Really a matter of what the owner is most interested in and wants to spend.

 

if i want a lt-1, or a BB car , then I want the parts than come with it, the suspension, the tach, the sway bars, the hood, the ignition and all the other things.. i would pay more for a nom car that was originally a lt1 or a BB, because then I don't have to pay all that money and time chasing down the correct tach, etc...

sure slap a BB engine in a small black car to make a bubba BB.. not worth as much as a NOM BB with all the right BB parts.

how much more? who knows, whatever the market will pay.