Hi RX,
Lots of good comments about this car.
I'm surprised at the large number of new parts that are in the list you posted. I can imagine a few owners would love to have all those ORIGINAL ($$$) parts. Why did this car need all that? Were all those parts missing?
For your information I'll post a picture of a typical stamp pad from the 70-72 era.
It does look like a car that could be big fun, but it's not a car that could be described as very 'original'.
Regards,
Alan

The first stamp group indicates the car the engine was installed in, and the second is the code for the engine's configuration and the date it was assembled.

 

Well, I can tell you that based on a quick comparison in the C3 registry, I found a car that was 8 away from your vin, making this a December 71 build -- though it is a 1972. The approximate build date was 12/9/71.

http://www.c3registry.org/index.php?...30&uid=9298Car Year:

Now, with respect to the receipt for the engine overhaul, I would contact the mechanic and ask if he/they pulled the engine from this Vette, rebuilt it and stamped it back in 2003 (if they are stamping blocks, this is not the only one they did it to). OR ... did the car show up with no engine and they put this engine it OR did the car have this stamp in it. NO REPUTABLE ENGINE REBUILDER WOULD FORGET SEEING A STAMP LIKE THE ONE IN THE PIC.

Overall -- it's a very very nice vette. Great color. convertible. The N.O.M does not bother me so much. What I don't see is what was the mileage on the date of the rebuild? What is the mileage now? How many miles since Oct 2003?

Since the work was done in NC.. let's make some assumptions that the car got some usage. I'll bet this rebuild has no more than 12,000 to 15,000 miles on it. As long as you're not going to try and put this through an NCRS judging and try for top flight, $18,500 to $19,000 top dollar if you love it and gotta have it.

Even it the engine matched, you don't have the original carb; heads questionable; manifold; alternator; wiper arms; etc. etc. this is so far from a numbers matching -- as are many of the ones out there, it's a moot point. If you like the car buy it. But not because the vin matches.

Scott.

 

Here's a link to my 72 (non LT1) L48 Coupe. Hope this help's
John

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/albu...0&ref=gnr-next

 

Curious -- when they repainted this car, looks like they left the black off the top of the engine compartment and shouldn't the chrome under windshield should be color matching to car?

 

Yeah its certainly not "numbers matching" with that 72 350 stamped on the pad, but I would not rule out that it isnt the original engine. Some engine rebuilders either screw up and shave off the original stamp when decking the block, or simply dont take the time to set up properly. I know of a person where this happened. Pissed? Yes, he was. My engine was decked and the original numbers were not milled off. I made mention of it many times, how important those numbers were to me.

Anyway, the car looks pretty nice. A lot of work has been done to it. Whether its worth the asking price to you is the question. If I were the seller I wouldnt accept less either. Someone will pay the price and get a nice looking car.

 

 

i tried the guy who did the engine rebuild, a cranky man who was no help at all and gave no information, said he wouldn't be able to remember anything 3-4 years back. The odo has been replaced, I can't find the original mileage.

OK, now let's make this a little more interesting.

Coincidentally, last July I looked at an almost identical car in the same area (not the same car) that I nearly bought, and it's still for sale, for $21k. I haven't stopped thinking about it. Here's that description from 3 mos ago and a few pics...which car would you buy, if either?

###



100k mi on the clock. It’s a base 350/200 engine, matching #s, no smoke, runs cool even after spirited driving on a hot day. It “may have been rebuilt by the previous owner” but no supporting docs so I’ll assume no.

The carb was rebuilt 2 years ago, but it smelled noticeably rich at idle sitting in the parking lot. Not enough to choke a horse, but noticeable. Maybe just an adjustment, I didn’t see any dark smoke from the exhaust.

Only driven about 2k mi in the past 4 years, always garaged and covered.

The engine compartment needs a repaint. A couple original items like the air cleaner cover and AC compressor have been replaced with obviously non-OEM parts.

The car is very (but not completely) original inside and out with few exceptions.

Very loaded, including auto trans (I actually like that), AC, PW, PS, PB. All are original options on the car.

Interior is in good condition except for deeply cracked armrests on both door panels, about 2-3 each.



Body panels are flush, gaps are good, no squeaks or rattles, drives tight and straight on the street and highway (newish front shocks and bushings), shifts smoothly, chirps the tires going into 2nd on hard accel.

No leaks, no rust.

All gauges and the radio work.

It recently had new brakes and rubber, receipts confirm.

Chrome is all there and in good condition. Bumpers “may be repros” (which I’ll assume means definitely repros), they’re in exceptionally good shape for a 40 year old car.

Dash shows very little sign of wear, gauge bezel paint isn’t worn away like a lot I’ve seen, dash pad in excellent condition and not warped or craked.

What may be a big one to some: The car was repainted a different color from the original color, but a year-correct Corvette color. It’s a very good paint job, upon close inspection I found 2 small areas where you could see the original color, in one door hinge and under the rear deck. If you didn’t know it had a color change you’d probably never guess it.

The fan blows but the AC does not work. Not sure why. Components are all there. Could get expensive depending on what’s wrong. Has not been converted to R134.

Wipers don’t operate with the upper dash switch, but they do from the under-dash button (not sure what that one’s called).

Headlights pop up and go down quickly, windows raise and lower smoothly and evenly.



The one bummer for me is in the pic below- it looks like someone had larger rear tires on at one time, hit a bump, and caused a small bit of damage to the lip of the RR along the wheel well. The hole is only about ½”, the split runs to the rear about 4” and is loose, just connected on the small rear side, you could pull it off if you yanked on it. A rough estimate to repair and paint from the photo was $700…so not a huge financial deal I suppose, hopefully the repaint looks good after the repair:



The weather stripping all needs to be replaced. Not crumbling out of the car yet, but not far off. Quoted $550 P&L.

Black top is in fairly good condition minus a small ¾” split in one seam. Windshield frame is straight and smooth.



Overall a very clean car, doesn’t seem like there are any hidden surprises being covered up.

 

Assuming I am reading this correctly the OP wants an "original" car. You are looking for no mods and/or upgrades...

Assuming that... I would tell you, based on what you are saying, the second ofthe two cars is the better option. Price, like anything, is more based on what you are willing to pay and what seems fair to you... You will see many opinions here... I've asked for many... I really do appreciate them as well... but you can go nuts trying to follow all of them... what one person sees as high... another will see as a fair price... it's just that opinions....

I, for example, was told i was supposed to "run like the wind" from the car I bought. I was told "if you see a little rust....what you will find underneath is 100 times worse"... "I would offer $1500."... "Don't buy a 1977.... you'll never get your money out of that car....".... I can go on and on... In the end... I listened... I learned what to look for. I searched. I bought a car. I am now well into a complete body off resto-mod....

I've seen 72 & 73 350cid Convertibles for $19 to $25K. It all depends on the quality of the restoration/maintenance. Let's face it... an almost 40 year old car will have parts that will have been replaced. Beyond that... make sure to look for the typical issues... There are various excellent threads here to tell you... rust in the birdcage... chassis... vacuum... etc. Jot down what you think YOU would like to replace/upgrade... budget it out... see if it fits what you are willing to do... expect you will invest more initially and it will take you above the current market value of the car...

Once you've done that.... get your car and ENJOY IT! .... BTW... that has a value. Do not go into a car like this and expect to be able to turn it over in a week and make $10K...

 

Hands down, Car 1.

Car 2 is too high for the damage to the glass.. and it's NOT all original inside. Leather seats, base interior. It's a good change, but not original.

I do not like all the chrome bullish-t in car two. Someone got a little carried away with the red & chrome theme. Car 1 could EASILY look better with a little work.

Plus, the pricing on number 1 is much better and far more was done to it.
Quite frankly, with the 72-350 stamp on it.. i'd probably just have it reground and stamped to match the car if it made you sleep better. At this point what's the difference. I would however disclose it to the next buyer. And if you ever got the car judged, you should disclose it or you'd be disqualified anyway.

 

This is false, sorry.

 

Wanna bet on that one?

 

I'll bet my master judge's hat.

 

I'll bet your master judges hat that if you show up at an ncrs event and present a restamped engine as original and it is detected as a restamp, in the usa, you'll be tossed on your ***. But let's not hijack the thread. If you want to argue the point of misleading and lying, send me a pm.

 

He just got a Third Flight Mike...

...here we go...


Start a new thread for this one guys, we all want to listen.

 

Interesting argument with cars 1 & 2.

Car 1 will never be a numbers matching car with that goofy pad, but Id be inclined to have it decked (and not restamped) just because it looks so ridiculous. Still, < $20k for a decent driver NOM roadster is a pretty good fun buy.

If you do consider restamping, remember to check the catsing date- which has not been addressed in this thread yet. The 010 block number can be OK, the pad can be anything you want (although you will have to deal with broach mark issues), but if you forget to check the casting date and it's impossibly incompatible with your fake pad assembly date, you will wind up with egg all over your face.

However, car 2 is the wrong color and has some body issues. But unlike car #1, it CAN be correct again (providing the numbers are verified). A strip, body repair and paint to the right color and the car is right there, after you throw away the goofy chrome engine compartment stuff.

Unfortunately, you could spend $10k doing it, so Id rather buy the car for a few grand less.

So: 1 could be a good buy for a fun car, but car 2 could wind up being the "correct/numbers matching" car the OP seems to want.

 

Nothing wrong with a Third Flight, but many cars could get a Second Flight if the owners simply familiarized themselves with the rules before the meet. There's NO step in the process that requires an owner to state that anything is original, repro or any other status. The judging rules, standards and procedures are not secret- they're available to members and non-members. Ignorance is no excuse.

A counterfeit or invalid VIN will get a car disqualified, but there's nothing even remotely close to what our friend is claiming WRT an engine stamp pad. Even a blank pad or really bad restamp will only garner a minor deduct. This is part of why I always caution people not to take an NCRS Flight award as any sort of proof that a car or any part of it is original or authentic.

Our friend's response indicates that he made a statement that he can't back up with any sort of proof. Why would being in the USA make any difference?

Moving right along..................

 

So I just received this info about the mechanic who did the major engine work on car #1, it came from a third party, and a forum member:

"I had no idea who it was till I saw the address. The engineering part was different. Dale did machine work on two of my 69 Camaro engines. He has an excellent reputation in the Gaston county area. Small shop and owner is hands on."

Which makes me feel a bit better about it.

Looking through these posts, I have to say that while I originally was set on a #s matching drivetrain, the idea of having some measure of reliability with all the work done on #1, plus the comments from the second mechanic who said it was a really nice car and that the owner basically gave him a blank check to "do whatever needed to be done"...well that is awfully appealing too.

I think with just a little work the engine could at least look correct (which i DO want)...and in fact it's not that it's a NOM car, it's just that it can't be verified matching. Maybe I'm putting too much importance on that for a sub-$20k car, and I really don't want to spend a ton more than that.

Maybe I'll see if I can work the price a bit more and call it done...

 

Mike, thank you for perfectly explaining why I was 100% correct. If you stamp an engine with a vin that is not correct, that is counterfeit. And that will get you disqualified. Of course, as a master judge, you would know that the 72 had the vin on the pad along with the mfr info.

Moving right along.... Maybe logic varies by country

 

Now this is a completely different position than what I assumed before. Making an councours car is not everybody's dream/need/desire. Making a car look original but be "modernized" or "updated" is a different thing. Getting the right valve covers, breathers, air filter, compressor, alternator, etc. is simple enough. It will not cost you $10K...

Given that, I would look at both and pick the better maintained car. The better paint and interior. The car with the incorrect air cleaner can get that swapped in 10 minutes. Go with the more reliable, safer car. Based on what you have mentioned, that would be the first car.

 

Definitely the the guy who owned this spent some bucks. So, while the engineering company wasnt able to tell you about the cars engine, maybe the owner at that time could. Looking at the receipt, the customer was Tracy Reid. Phone number is there except area code. Interesting a quick google shows a basketball player named Tracy Reid in that area. Maybe your car was owned by an athlete .... One who could write a blank check....?

I'd do some research this direction on the owner in 2003