Authenticate Matching Numbers
Thread Starter
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Authenticate Matching Numbers
Having recently bought a 1968 convertible, I was wondering about matching numbers. The stamp pad on the engine block has the VIN and engine ID for a 327/350 hp engine. The transmission is stamped with the VIN and Muncie date code. The rear axle is stamped as a 3.36 Posi with a date code. The VIN sequence for the car is late Feb 68, and all the before mentioned items are dated within a few weeks of this. The question is. Is there an organization or individuals who can validate or dismiss these numbers?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 34
From: Ontario
Ccas
Contact Al Grenning, if you google his name you will get him. He has a couple of different plan's . If you just want to know what you have he is verry reasonable price wise. If you want it certified by him in writing it costs more of course .
I used him for my 66 L36 and was satisfied,
His business name is CCAS .
Again JMO Bill
I used him for my 66 L36 and was satisfied,
His business name is CCAS .
Again JMO Bill
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,079
Likes: 314
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
NCRS will not certify that any car has it's original drivetrain, or any other original component. For a fee, their volunteer (or minimally compensated) judges will briefly examine a member's car to see how correctly it appears to conform to known original factory production. Period. If a restamp (undisclosed or unknown) and re-broached pad look like they should (as in well-done)...no problemo. If most everything else on the car looks correct, a counterfeit car could even win a Top Flight award.
Last edited by Faster Rat; Feb 14, 2012 at 10:10 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
...The stamp pad on the engine block has the VIN and engine ID for a 327/350 hp engine. The transmission is stamped with the VIN and Muncie date code. The rear axle is stamped as a 3.36 Posi with a date code. The VIN sequence for the car is late Feb 68, and all the before mentioned items are dated within a few weeks of this. The question is. Is there an organization or individuals who can validate or dismiss these numbers?
Any reason for you to believe the numbers you have found are not authentic?
http://www.ncrs.org/
Congratulations on the 68. Cruise and enjoy.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
The key words are 'authenticate' and 'validate'. No group or club that I know of will come anywhere close to doing that, certainly not NCRS. Al Grenning is your best bet if you feel the need.
'Matching numbers' is a hackneyed phase that's now meaningless.
If you're just curious to see if the components on the car might be the originals, post some pictures here.
'Matching numbers' is a hackneyed phase that's now meaningless.
If you're just curious to see if the components on the car might be the originals, post some pictures here.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,226
Likes: 4,321
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi na,
I guess one thing to be gained by having someone else look at you car and it's stamps/dates is that that person would have more experience than you do.
So his opinion would be more highly regarded.
Regards,
Alan
I guess one thing to be gained by having someone else look at you car and it's stamps/dates is that that person would have more experience than you do.
So his opinion would be more highly regarded.
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I didn't buy the car thinking of matching numbers. It wasn't sold as such. I'm just wanting some support if or when I sell the car. I self verified the numbers for the fun and excitement of having a classic car. Another set of eyes and/or opinion would be greatly appreciated.
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Race Director
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,023
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From: Austin Tx
One thing that might help if you want to be convinced that your engine, and trans are the same ones that the car was born with, is to compare the stamps. I believe the transmission, and engine block were stamped with the same gang stamp, like the one below, and therefore should look identical - so one can in essence verify the other. If they are identical in appearance, and match your VIN, I think it's pretty safe that those are the ones that the car was born with.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,751
Likes: 720
From: Lafayette Louisiana
good to know and thanks!
One thing that might help if you want to be convinced that your engine, and trans are the same ones that the car was born with, is to compare the stamps. I believe the transmission, and engine block were stamped with the same gang stamp, like the one below, and therefore should look identical - so one can in essence verify the other. If they are identical in appearance, and match your VIN, I think it's pretty safe that those are the ones that the car was born with.
good to know and interesting!
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 71
Likes: 1
From: Coshocton Ohio
"Matching numbers" aren't meaningless to us who can actually verify their validity. For example, mine has MN, and from interviewing the only previous owners, I have determined that, aside from minor repair replacement parts (GM when available), the car is in original, stock condition. The numbered units have never been exchanged for something else, much less taken apart. We all know that there are unscrupulous people who will tell you anything for a sale, so "caveat emptor" is the key. However, to insinuate that there are no reasons to believe that many (if not most) "matching numbers" claims are not fraudulent is somewhat insulting to those owners who are trying very hard to keep the breed pure and respectable. I don't expect anyone who isn't committed to doing that to understand, but please don't dismiss anything that might help another 'Vette enthusiast increase his/her personal knowledge and enjoyment of this hobby. Thanks, everybody!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
So far as the vast majority of matching numbers Corvettes being authentic, could be, don't know. I will say the higher the value the more motivation to generate fakes. This is especially true of the big block Corvettes or LT1s. In this case, best to have someone who really knows the game validate the stamp pad. You'll never be 100% sure unless you can talk to all owners down the line.
Last edited by BBCorv70; Feb 15, 2012 at 09:42 AM. Reason: clarify
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
"Matching numbers" aren't meaningless to us who can actually verify their validity. For example, mine has MN, and from interviewing the only previous owners, I have determined that, aside from minor repair replacement parts (GM when available), the car is in original, stock condition. The numbered units have never been exchanged for something else, much less taken apart. We all know that there are unscrupulous people who will tell you anything for a sale, so "caveat emptor" is the key. However, to insinuate that there are no reasons to believe that many (if not most) "matching numbers" claims are not fraudulent is somewhat insulting to those owners who are trying very hard to keep the breed pure and respectable. I don't expect anyone who isn't committed to doing that to understand, but please don't dismiss anything that might help another 'Vette enthusiast increase his/her personal knowledge and enjoyment of this hobby. Thanks, everybody!
I think you may be a little on the naive side also by underestimating just how many counterfeit and fraudulently misrepresented cars there are out there, whether the owners know it or not. Yours might be a genuine original engine car- that's great. Now try convincing 100% of the people that might want to buy it.
Thread Starter
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
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Mashman,
Thank-You for this info. I've cleaned the paint from the block and transmission stamps. The letters and numbers are of the same font, size and length. The stamp on the transmission is harder to read, but is of a bolder imprint. I believe this is due to the rough texture of the case and softer it is made of.
Thank-You for this info. I've cleaned the paint from the block and transmission stamps. The letters and numbers are of the same font, size and length. The stamp on the transmission is harder to read, but is of a bolder imprint. I believe this is due to the rough texture of the case and softer it is made of.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 71
Likes: 1
From: Coshocton Ohio
Certainly, I really didn't intend to demean anyone's efforts to do their own cars the way they want. After all, many numbered components get destroyed and stolen over time and have to be replaced with available pieces. This by no means makes the cars "step-children"! All I'm trying to say is that if you come across one that you KNOW is genuine, don't let anyone tell you that it isn't or that it doesn't matter anyway just because he has been told so often that there is no such thing. Sorry if I offended anyone, I come to the forum to be informed and, when I'm able, to encourage others, definitely not to start arguments and to be insultingly compared to an SNL character and be called naive. Thanks, everybody!
Last edited by Uncle Maddog; Feb 15, 2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: grammar
Race Director
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But nobody suggested such a thing in the first place........
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
Certainly, I really didn't intend to demean anyone's efforts to do their own cars the way they want. After all, many numbered components get destroyed and stolen over time and have to be replaced with available pieces. This by no means makes the cars "step-children"! All I'm trying to say is that if you come across one that you KNOW is genuine, don't let anyone tell you that it isn't or that it doesn't matter anyway just because he has been told so often that there is no such thing. Sorry if I offended anyone, I come to the forum to be informed and, when I'm able, to encourage others, definitely not to start arguments and to be insultingly compared to an SNL character and be called naive. Thanks, everybody!
OK..If you know it's genuine, cool. Think all that was said is we can't always be 100% sure unless you're the original owner or have interviewed the past owners down to the original. Does it matter? Certainly does to some people!
