Numbers matching vs. correct
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 115
Likes: 5
From: Brookland AR
Numbers matching vs. correct
Hello all. I am in the process of doing a frame off on my '72 vert. The car was 1 owner with 56,xxx miles, all original except he blew up the motor and replaced it with a crate longblock and a replacement quadrajet. My question is, I see references to date codes on engine blocks quite often on the parts for sale forum but even if I find a block that is "correct" for my car, it still will not be #'s matching, so what is the value in that? I am interested in keeping the car original, but the lack of the original engine is a killer in this regard, correct? Are there concessions made for this type of situation where a period correct part is used even if it is not vin correct?
Just wondering...
Thanks,
Mike
Just wondering...
Thanks,
Mike
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: Walpole MA
Once the original engine is gone, the car will never be numbers matching again, so at that point, if it pleases you to have a correctly dated engine in there, that is great, and it may affect value a little bit, since you will be showing some attention to correct detail.
But in the end, to the purist the car will still not be correct, so at that point, I personally would put in there what pleases you, or what is readily available, priced right, etc....
You can use an incorrect block, and still have everything else
"look" original..
But in the end, to the purist the car will still not be correct, so at that point, I personally would put in there what pleases you, or what is readily available, priced right, etc....
You can use an incorrect block, and still have everything else
"look" original..
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,980
Likes: 6,207
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
I think you are looking for hard and fast answers where there are none. At the extremes of the question, yes- a (the) numbers matching motor is generally the one that will hold the most value and an NOM the least.
In the middle ground, some people like engines that are "correct" or era appropriate, and assign a bit more value to them than a completly wrong NOM, like a 350 in a C1. However, these "shades" of incorrectness have value deductions that can be very subjective and will vary on a car by car basis.
Unfortunately, it's no more precise than that.
In the middle ground, some people like engines that are "correct" or era appropriate, and assign a bit more value to them than a completly wrong NOM, like a 350 in a C1. However, these "shades" of incorrectness have value deductions that can be very subjective and will vary on a car by car basis.
Unfortunately, it's no more precise than that.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
There are 'some' potential buyers that would want only the original engine in the car. But 'most' potential buyers wouldn't really care, if the engine was in good condition and the price reflected the fact that the car wasn't as it left the factory.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,221
Likes: 4,312
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Mike,
You might consider the approach that the NCRS takes in Flight Judging.
When looking at the cylinder case, (engine block), the VAST percentage of available points are for the casting number & case configuration, and casting date.
A block with the appropriate casting numbers and date will appear to be appropriate for the car and get the majority of the points before the judges even look at the stamped information.
So a car with an appropriate block judges well and there is no need for any deception.... the truth about the block can be told.
I'd look for an appropriate block for what you describe as an otherwise very nice original car.
Regards,
Alan
You might consider the approach that the NCRS takes in Flight Judging.
When looking at the cylinder case, (engine block), the VAST percentage of available points are for the casting number & case configuration, and casting date.
A block with the appropriate casting numbers and date will appear to be appropriate for the car and get the majority of the points before the judges even look at the stamped information.
So a car with an appropriate block judges well and there is no need for any deception.... the truth about the block can be told.
I'd look for an appropriate block for what you describe as an otherwise very nice original car.
Regards,
Alan
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
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From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Likes: 59
From: Central Valley Cali
I went through the very same thing as you on my 72. It had a 327ci in it when i got the car. It was a project and came with a nice SBC 350ci. I even found a 1972 CKW coded corvette motor for it. In the end I built and installed a BBC and I could not give the corvette motor away. Now I have the year car I always wanted with the motor I want. Like others have said it’s your car do with it what you want. In the end you always put fare to much money in them to be a good investment; build it the way you want and then drive it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,079
Likes: 314
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Just like people, no car can ever be, once again, what it used to be. That is why the phrase "a car can only be original once." I find it interesting that you start out describing your car as all original, except for the motor. That is a big exception, but should not determine which path you go down with the car. If you cannot fix a problem or deficit, then do no additional harm. Sort of a Corvette Hypocratic Oath.
I personally feel that these old Corvettes should be kept as original as possible. A correct car, though not original, will in all likelihood have a higher resale market value than a modified car. They too are becoming more rare every day. I would think that out of the half million or so C3s built, not one of those remaining has the identical originality or correctness as another. As VB said, there is no set precision in making such a determination. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. These cars were fantastic just the way they were built.
I personally feel that these old Corvettes should be kept as original as possible. A correct car, though not original, will in all likelihood have a higher resale market value than a modified car. They too are becoming more rare every day. I would think that out of the half million or so C3s built, not one of those remaining has the identical originality or correctness as another. As VB said, there is no set precision in making such a determination. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. These cars were fantastic just the way they were built.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Huntersville NC
A so-called "restoration" engine can be built for your car that has all the characteristics of the original engine, including all of the part number stampings (on the block), date code stampings, AND the original vin and prefix/suffix codes stamped on the engine pad. I assure you that if someone goes to the trouble and expense of restoring the car with an engine that looks exactly like the original, then they will refer to the car as a "numbers matching" car, which is honest, but if they are honest they will not call it the "original engine" because it is not. Also, they won't call it a "restamp" because they will stamp those numbers on a blank engine pad, so it would be an original stamp, not a re-stamp.
Let me repeat myself just to kick this dead horse one more time. "Numbers matching" does not mean "original" any more. Caveat emptor.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,091
Likes: 40
Hello all. I am in the process of doing a frame off on my '72 vert. The car was 1 owner with 56,xxx miles, all original except he blew up the motor and replaced it with a crate longblock and a replacement quadrajet. My question is, I see references to date codes on engine blocks quite often on the parts for sale forum but even if I find a block that is "correct" for my car, it still will not be #'s matching, so what is the value in that? I am interested in keeping the car original, but the lack of the original engine is a killer in this regard, correct? Are there concessions made for this type of situation where a period correct part is used even if it is not vin correct?
Just wondering...
Thanks,
Mike
Just wondering...
Thanks,
Mike
Without the original motor for a common corvette , I wouldn't spend a ton of effort to reduplicate the original engine , unless its your dream car , money /time doesn't matter and your keeping it to enjoy. If your keeping never to sell ...it doesn't matter , dump the money in it and be happy.
If you envision yourself reselling this car in near future , its not your dream car, then I would put just the effort into it to satisfy your driving pleasure and make it desirable as a first corvette driver for the next owner. No reason to dump huge money in a non matching car, when nice mega buck restorations are out there
If your a collector at heart and original stuff matters, wait and find someone who has spent mega bucks restoring the car of your dreams .
.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Likes: 2
From: Port Washington WI
Mike, I'm in the same position with my '69. The original engine is long gone but I have a correct '69 block and heads. My engine guy wants to deck the block which will likely erase the serial number/configuration code. We're taking photos before and after. Since I don't have the build sheet I couldn't prove that the car was an original BB anyway. At least I'll know the engine is correct for the car and have a good story to tell.