points in an ncrs judging is merely a side issue for most people. What is the reality here is sale price and the op has asked about value increase or decrease.
X amount of points deducted on a stamp pad judging is secondary to what a flawless pad stamped on a correctly dated engine will help in the car valuation. yes there are bubba stampers out there with the wrong fonts and spacing.. but there are stampers out there that can stamp and broach your engine pad to the point of being non detectable to the best of the best detectors. it is a game they play with each other. it will cost you too.

the overwhelming number of corvette buyers are novices and do indeed misuse the term matching numbers. but with the right lawyer, one can argue and win that when a seller claims matching numbers, he is claiming a connotation of original engine. this opens up the transaction to all sorts of levels of fraud that can be claimed.

bottom line is, finding, rebuilding, shipping, stamping, installing, getting all the correct date codes on the accessories, trans, rear end.. etc.. in order to get top dollar for your car, will cost you lots of pain and grief. if you really want to play that game then do your research and cover all your bases.

what we see on the market are cars with claimed matching numbers that the seller has not covered all his bases and get lots of scrutiny.

you can spend 10K on a flawless stamped engine and maybe get 10K more for it.. but it is not really profitable.

if you want to find and install a correctly dated engine and not fool with the stamping then yes you will get an increment in value also.

 

Well as I said I really don't care about NCRS judging and will continue to refer to my Vette as numbers (there's that N word), matching since it is. I have to wonder if yours has the original engine, trans and diff, I suspect not since you are so bothered by those of us whom do.

Thanks for setting me straight on some of the finer points of NCRS judging though

 

Whoa!!!!!

Stop the clock!!!!!

If anyone is going to defend Mike Ward it is me. (he doesn't need a bodyguard as he is fully capable but I had to respond).

This guy along with others put up with my BS for at least a decade (and continues to do so on ncrs matters ) looking for my car and pounded matching numbers and their meaning into me and what I need to look for to not get scammed and make a huge mistake on my dream car purchase.

I finally found that car with the help of several members here including Mike Ward. This is something that would not bother him per se. I think what bugs him is the idea that some believe the NCRS certifies corvettes and folks buy cars thinking that if they have the top flight certificate they are original and perfect cars. I thought so to at one time, but they do not certify anything. MAYBE a stretch can be made when the chief judge authenticates the VIN pillar and trim tag prior to judging. Other than that no authentication whatsoever.

Listen carefully to Mike Ward. He has an overwhelming wealth of knowledge.

 

Not knocking his knowledge and even thanked him for setting me straight on an NCRS judging point (He does however come across as condescending most of the time though), just saying I have a numbers matching car and will continue to call it that.

It seems as though whom are against the phrase "numbers matching" probably don't have one.

Would I have bought my Vette if it weren't numbers matching, yeah probably, but I would also have probably negotiated on that point as well.

Will it matter in 10 or 20 years that my Vette is numbers matching, yeah probably. When you watch mecum as well as other aucitons it certainly seems to matter to buyers if the car is numbers matching. But as I have said this car will be passed down to my son so I don't care about the monetary value of a numbers matching car just the fact that it has what it was born with - AS I HAVE ALSO SAID..

I like my NUMBERS MATCHING Vette

 

A quality that others have noticed but everyone has their online persona. I been ripped too....especially on numbers matching topics and taking longer understanding.

Have you purchased an AIM yet?

 

The key point is there is NO hard fast and definition of the term which leads to all sorts of confusion.I kept a log of the various definitions I found here on CF. At last count I was at #23 or so. Got pretty silly.

If people want to be clear on what their car has, use 'original engine' or similar.

No need to get panties in a knot.

 

Yes I have and learned real quick to check that first before asking a question

 

Dude, panties are not in a knot, perhaps you should take your own advice and quit being so damn condescending

To my way of thinking, if someone says they have a numbers matching car then the drive train matches the Vin, if someone else has a different definition I'm not going to get all offended as you seem to be (i.e. panties in a wad).

You may have all the knowledge in the world on these cars but most of the time when I see you reply to a post I know it's either get a damn AIM or some other condescending BS that doesn't help anyone so I move on. Then there the times I screw up and actually read your BS like in this thread.

I believe I've told you before, when you see a thread I've started, asking what most would view as a legitimate question, just ignore it

 

It's not easy maintaining my perennial Mr. Nasty title. Almost came in second last year.

 

Everyones definition as Mike Ward pointed out is different. If it fits your definition wonderful. But be prepared it may not satisfy others.

Although I have ZERO doubt that my motor is the real deal, stamped at the GM plant, the tranny is original, and of course the VIN pillar, there are other items that are not correct. For example my alternator is aftermarket. BUT, i just found the correct one with the date code and 1100543 number.

I learn about my car all the time. Found some mexican bananas that the restorer hid in the car and I am getting rid of those looking for other correct parts.

Until I get that straight I don't think I will be using your quote just yet.

 

You've gotten your 'Mikes' mixed up.

Have a nice day.

 

WOW this got way off topic.

 

I'm not going for NCRS judging so I don't know or care if my alternator is date code correct. As a matter of fact I just ordered a 120 AMP chrome alternator and when it get's here I'll be putting it on. I don't have original valve covers (why in the world bubba took off the L82 valve covers and put on moroso chorme covers I'll never know). And as soon as I get enough money saved (again), for my 5 speed the numbers matching 4 speed will be stored safely in the garage. I will still have a numbers car, just not all the parts will be currently on the car

Those purist may get offended at that but that's ok, I don't mine

 

You have my sincerest apologies if I've mixed you up with another mike! you all look the same to me

 

Not really, we are still discussing "numbers matching"

 

Yep. Damn AIMs are worth their cost.

 

EVERYTHING? I have a tough time swallowing this. It IS possible but did you go through the car and inventory everything? Do you have the original tires? Have you checked the spare for originality? Are there any mexican bananas (made in mexico parts) hidden somewhere?

I think I would bet that everything is NOT in the car or in your possession since it was born. But if you inventoried everything then congratulations. That would be a rare find.

Some may get offended all right.

 

If I use your criteria I can call my '69 convertible "numbers matching" even though I have a built engine (same casting number block) in the car and the "born with" engine is stored on a stand in my garage.


Pete

 

Guys, I'm all for continuing this never-ending, unsolvable topic because, well, it's so popular. Let's be sure to stay civil, though.


PS, my opinion re: the definition of NM is more about language than anything. While I agree it would be easier to lose the NM expression altogether because of the zillion interpretations of it (many of them self-serving). I just think when you have so many definitions of a concept, the language needs to be more specific... i.e. "matching" meaning something matches something else and nothing more than that... "original" means "born with..." etc.

To me "matching" makes sense when you say the VIN matches the pad. You arent saying its original, you arent even mentioning NCRS, and you arent saying its not re-stamped. This # matches that #, end of story.

But, many will disagree and its probably true that it is impossible to think any consensus can be achieved. I sure won't lose any sleep over it. Car people can't even agree on body off vs frame off.

 

Indeed....taking his definition....as long as you have all the original parts in your garage in boxes this is a matching numbers corvette? Right?