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All, per advice from the Mods, I'm posting here to get more exposure. Basically, I'd like to get the experts' thoughts on the originality of the attached trim tag. The car is claimed to be a factory black car, but? Rivets are wrong. Positioning looks incorrect. I was told it was removed/replaced for a paint job as part of a restore in the early 90's. No other docs to verify. And, just as an aside, no Vin# stamped on engine pad, although the engine codes are there. Made me start suspecting the trim tag as well. Thoughts appreciated!
Yes, the rivets are wrong, but I think the placement is a little low. I would drill out the rivets and check for other holes just to be sure. How about the sticker on the driver's side, (if they are on '69's) is it there with the vin # typed? As far as the condition of the tag, I think it would look like that if the car was well cared for. But, the missing vin # on the engine block is suspicious.
Here's a picture of my original un-removed tags on my '71.
Last edited by 71 Green 454; Aug 26, 2014 at 01:16 PM.
your only choice is to go by the faith of what the seller tells you. Ask lots of questions, look for holes in his story, then you will have your answer.
I would not pay 900 code money for that car (whatever that may be).
Thanks for the info, so far. Personally, I've found very few original 900/420 cars. They are usually a 983 changed to a 900 or some other hodgepodge of colors.
As further history, I had some discussion with the current owner (who now has it consigned). He had the car completely restored in the late 80's to early 90's. Supposedly the trim tag was removed for painting. Never did get a pic of the Vin# stamping on the engine pad. Now I know why.
Doubt if the Vin# sticker on the door exists, but, I'll ask. Not having any luck getting block casting dates from the consignors either. Weird that they would block the deck, yet take the time to restamp the engine codes even that far back (VO725HX). The car Vin# is in the 26000's, so, it jives up with what am able to research. But, yep, that trim tag is scary .
Hi,
Aren't the reproduction tags (or at least some of them) slightly different in size from the original …. I think there's even a 'gauge' available that can verify the size of the tag.
Regards,
Alan
A car with questions about it really isn't a big deal until it's your car and the questions don't go away by magic!
I've seen a few tags that aren't exactly as straight as others that didnt scare me, and even some suprisingly new-looking ones, although some pictures (flash, macro) can make them look better or worse, depending.
I've heard the "the tag was removed for paint" story a couple times and I'm sorry, I'm having a lot of trouble processing someone who would drill out the rivets in a tag that's tucked away inside a door jamb because the car is being painted... the same color.
Incidentally, I've only heard this story from people selling the car.
I guess I'd want to know what other level of extreme the restorer went to in removing parts for paint.
Here's my tag. I guess a 402 would have been better for me as I changed the seats to leather. I've spoken to a previous owners who said the car has always been black, and this car was completely disassembled for paint (shockingly, we didnt rip the tag off) and there's no other color on the car.
I think the actual tag itself looks ok from what you can see. The rivets and location are flags as the tag being removed could have come from another car. In addition no vin on engine pad.
I would only pay nom money for this car, too bad but just too many unknowns.
Joe
Weird that they would block the deck, yet take the time to restamp the engine codes even that far back (VO725HX).
Re-stamps are nothing new. There were plenty of people re-stamping blocks, back in the 70's. It was quite common by the 80's and 90's.
As far as the trim tag goes, the position of the tag is off, but I don't see that as a huge issue. The rosette rivets are definitely wrong, and when taken with the position of the tag, and that it's a black car (the color that's likely most often counterfeited), I would be real suspicious of the car's legitimacy.
The angle of the tag in the photo, makes it pretty hard to judge the correctness of the tag itself.
The older the cars, the more stuff can be changed and no way to prove other wise.
Shop I hung out many years ago., routinely changed trim tags on dozens of C2's as they frame off restored the cars. PER the owners request.
If the customer wanted a red red car ....that's what he got
My jaw dropped at what people would pay to have a bogus car built out of a plain one..insane .....oh well.....I just always wonder WHO owns some of these cars and I guess what they don't know won't hurt them .....except in the wallet.
Very rare a C2 car actually stayed the original color as painted from the factory.
Everybody wanted a Black or Red car . Even if it meant changing everything,
A lot of guys out there riding around thinking they have BB C2 cars in black.or original BB .....uh not !
Actually they have green or yellow SB cars restored completely different .
My favorite was the guy who bought a 65 FI coupe with a restamped block , I saw the swirl on the pad , with a repro trim tag as a black car. I saw no way to prove it was the real deal....ever in its life . Big it was NCRS correct
.....dude paid 115K ..for what I m dead certain was a clone.
I don't trust old car history.
Last edited by LS4 PILOT; Aug 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM.
The trim tag itself looks ok,but i never like the took it off to paint it story.I always check out the trim tags when i see a Black 68 or 69,i have owned 2 Black 69's myself, and find that most are either green or gold originally.
Does it really matter? If you are buying this car, its worth as much as you are willing to pay for it, or how much the guy will let it go for. Is he claiming its all original matching numbers game? I hate that game! Its like arguing religion with an athiest. He can claim what he wants and has to prove very little. But unless he has owned the car since it was first driven off the lot, he has no idea what has been done to this car in the past forty years.
The question is, can you live with the deal on this car?
Good luck.
Re-stamps are nothing new. There were plenty of people re-stamping blocks, back in the 70's. It was quite common by the 80's and 90's.
As far as the trim tag goes, the position of the tag is off, but I don't see that as a huge issue. The rosette rivets are definitely wrong, and when taken with the position of the tag, and that it's a black car (the color that's likely most often counterfeited), I would be real suspicious of the car's legitimacy.
The angle of the tag in the photo, makes it pretty hard to judge the correctness of the tag itself.
Speaking of judging.....
would this car get the Branded X award from the Chief Judge the first five minutes it was looked at in Kissimmee?
1969 Trim Tag Analysis
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