Looking at purchasing this nice (on the surface) 1969 coupe. BUT.....looking behind the door in front of the back tire, I see this....
How bad is this without seeing the rest of it?
The seller has owned it for 16 years and babied it and stored it in a heated warehouse.
Thanks for the help,
Red Perch




Behind driver's side door





Same spot





1969 coupe 350/300 manual

 

Hi RP,
There's no reason to PAY to get involved with a car with a frame that rusty.
There's no reason to get involved with a car like that even if they GIVE it
to you.
Sorry!
Regards,
Alan

 

Run, Forrest, Run!!! Huge, expensive job to repair, and that's from just that one area. The birdcage and rocker channels are highly suspect to me also after seeing that frame.

 

That's not a "possible rust issue", that's a serious one. The frame will likely need to be replaced. Move on, there are plenty of chrome bumper cars out there, without those kinds of issues.

 

I agree with the above. Stay away from that car.

 

Well have to disagree that if they "gave" you the car to still pass..

But the point is well made, that rust just what you showed is pretty bad,
My 69 spent over 20 years just sitting in a garage, the frame "looked" good, but a busted rear strut lead to a small rust hole in the rear kick up area, so I buy a restored frame to swap out, when my body came off there was all kinds of hiding rust, one hole the size of a 1/2 dollar coin up by the door pillar in the rocker channel impossible to see with body on. That was repaired then the #3 bird cage mount disintegrated when Tommy tech went to pull the bushing out of it, so we have to get that #3 rocker repair part to weld in to fix that, there is some light rust on the windshield pillar too but not bad.
I am super lucky ( stress lucky ) that the rust was on the passenger side only and the rest of the rocker channel is good and Tommy is fixing it and I can afford it,
I will have a like new or better 69 bb convertible daily driver for around 13K so in my case the problems didn't make the car worthless.

While I disagreed that the yellow car you posted is "worthless" it would likey cost more to repair it than it would be worth after the fact so I feel a bit bad for the owner of cars like these, I doubt too many people are just going to hand a car over for free to some cat who would put the $$$ into it because fixed it is still a good value...what do they do? fix it and try to get their money back driving it, part it out? gee...I can see he flaming now that I said "part it out" yet we are told to run from such cars,

So my question is what does the owner of a car like that do?

 

Nope....

 

Thats pretty bad, unless youre buying the car to do a full resto and can get it at a appropriate price for a car thats gonna need a new frame at the least Id pass.

 

Since you already didn't know that this was a serious rust issue, I would say that you would not know how to tackle a job of this size. Most likely the rocker channels are also rusted out along with the bird cage. Save yourself a lot of expense and misery and keep looking. Nice ones are out there .

 

Hi rp,
I re-read the thread because I though perhaps I'd been too harsh.
But no, I still think the same as my original post.
I think it's interesting that no one asked you the price!!!!…. I believe that's because it really doesn't matter.
The OWNER has to face this bad situation, there's no reason for YOU to go into it knowingly.
There are too many cars available that have no or very little rust to take this one on.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

 

I have to go with the crowd on this. Even if this is the only place showing this degree of rust, I would bail.

We see this kind of rust in the shop often and the repair can become pretty intense. Me personally.. I'd not be scared of what I see.. but what's under what I see scares me worse.

Why you might ask? Because if the rust is that bad on the back of the member, the interior structure can be just as bad if not worse. In many cases we have found ourselves cutting additional access holes in the side member to gain better access to interior damage... (if anyone is interested I have tons of pictures on the white 65 we restored.... Same issue)

I feel sorry for the guy that owns the car, it's a really nice looking car but he should have this properly repaired and then sell the car.

IMHO,

Willcox

 

I guess my questions are ones that no one wants to stir,
But really...this car is 100% worthless even if free?
Seriously, what is the car worth the way it is...I know we don't know the full extent of the rust but know enough that everyone says avoid this car, so how much IS it worth as is?
Then how much to hire a shop to restore it correctly?
How much is it worth restored?
I will ask again, what options does the owner really have?

 

I figure he has three options

Fix it $$$$, or a motivated scrounger could do it a lot cheaper, depending on the cage.

Sell it with full disclosure (not safe to drive, etc.) and most likely take a loss.

Part it out and try to get more money that way, but man, what a hassle, then having the carcass lying around to remind you of your loss.

 

Option four:


Write it off and collect insurance............

 

Worth as is for a base 69??

My guess is the restore costs would be higher then it's worth. So even if it was free you are still looking at a large chunk of money to replace the frame and birdcage.

$20K to restore, maybe not. What do the experts think?

 

I might as well "pile on", for the sake of the OP. I don't know if they're still in business, but there used to be an outfit named 'Collier Technology', that made brand new, replacement C-3 frames. They weren't particularly cheap, but swapping a frame on an early C-3 certainly wouldn't be as difficult as a later model car, one that has all the electrical do-dads, and pollution crap, that add dozens of wires, black boxes, etc, to the car.

However, you're still potentially stuck with a rotted out birdcage. Replacing THAT can get expensive, as all the main body sections are BONDED to it, and removing those panels without damaging them, will be time consuming (expensive).

However, if by some chance the birdcage was OK, you could also put an updated frame underneath the car, and have a slick "resto-mod"....

 

I don't know that I'm an expert, but I'll take a shot at some numbers for you.

A new Vette Products frame for that 69, or a restored original one from America's Finest, will run about $5,000. If your going to the trouble of replacing the frame, you might as well rebuild the trailing arms, rear, engine, front suspension and take a good look at the trans. Your also going to want new fuel and brake lines, body mounts, exhaust, assorted hardware, and likely a gas tank too. The labor for a shop just to pull and replace the body, is going to be $1,500-$2,000, not counting any additional work. That's easily $10,000-$15,000, without figuring in any body or interior work, that may be needed.

As bad as that frame is, I'd say the chances of finding rotted out a-pillars, and possibly the whole windshield frame, are pretty good. So add $1,500-$2,000 to repair the a-pillars, or maybe $2,500-$3,000 for a-pillars and a windshield frame, and that doesn't include the paint.

One of the shops I deal with, is doing a 70 right now, with problems similar to the 69. The car was bought on ebay, sight unseen. The seller claimed that it was rust free, and provided pictures of the frame. Turns out the frame was filled with bondo, to hide some extremely serious rust issues. The cowl/a-pillar area was also shot, and the body and paint weren't all that nice in person either. The price for the car was the mid teens, but by the time the frame is replaced, and the paint and body work is done, the owner will be $40,000 into a base motor, low option, 70 coupe!

Personally, a chrome bumper car with a frame like the one under that yellow car, I'd value at around $5,000-$7,000 tops, and that's IF the A-pillars and rockers are solid.

 

Hello Red,

Congratulations on catching this and welcome to the forum!

 

I'm a little sad at all the negative comments without asking for more details.

1. Biggest thing is he willing to fix himself or are we assuming he's paying a shop to do it for him? If shop I have no clue what it'll cost as worked on mine mostly by myself.

2. That frame rust isn't bad but like Wilcox said it's what we don't see that worries me. Birdcage in particular as that's a HUGE game changer if it needs repaired due to location/access. I'd want to see pictures of the kick up panel and under the dash in the corners if possible. BUT like mine the frame was bad but birdcage not terrible so there's no need in assuming anything without looking as you know what happens when you assume right?

Here's mine. I lifted the body(pretty easy to do with a hoist). sandblasted the frame in the garage by myself. And paid a welder $350 to repair the bad areas. Good as new if you ask me. Sure the inside has rust but for the most part it's 100x better than it was before for not much money!!!!

Before: sorry...no pics of the actual area rusty.




Blasted:



After welder fixed the spots:

 

Hi pv,
I think the more important point is to advise the op to not BUY his way into this problem.
It's one thing to DEAL with a situation you find yourself in, it's quite another to PAY someone to get yourself in to what is known to be a bad situation.
Regards,
Alan