A good while ago, I made a thread about a 454 I scored absolutely free. The nearest I could track down on the casting numbers was it was a 1973 engine. Out of what I don't know. The weather turned foul, and given where the engine is sitting, getting the engine out, and getting out to see it, is a royal pain in the well you know.

Then life happened as it tends to. The weather's improving and should be gorgeous tomorrow.
(mid 70s and sunny) and the ground is finally getting a chance to dry.

I forgot to ask last time, which cylinder head castings are the most desirable? I'll be able to get a better look this time, and if the weather holds, I might be able to start working on extraction and getting the engine home or at least in a better storage building and working on it at my buddy's. Still no car to put it in of course. But that might change here in a little while. (just looking for the right C3, honestly. That or I might just put it in my 86 Z-28)

 

Hi m,
Looking at the assembly and suffix code stamps on the flat 'pad' on the block in front of the right side cylinder head will tell you when the engine was built, in what configuration, and the vehicle type it was headed for.
Good Luck… maybe a nice find.
Regards,
Alan

 

I would say that it having cylinder heads of any value is rare. I had a 73 same as yours but it had the 427/435 heads, and with a mid performance cam it was a BEAST!! But yours could be built up with a new cam matching the low compression.

It gets bask to the old question...how much u wanna spend? As you know power is made in the heads.

You REALLY want to stuff it into a Camaro???

 

I used to own a Gen 3 Camaro. I dont think you can drop a big block in without SERIOUS firewall modification.

Look, Im going to give you a bit of advice I wish someone had given me. Big Blocks are FAR more expensive to maintain than small blocks. Look at the price of heads....(800 for a set of good SB, 2500 for BB). Everything costs more and is harder to find than small block stuff. You can make a healthy 350 push 400 HP for less than 2 thousand bucks if you budget correctly.

Sure the 454 has gobs of torque, but you pay for it.

 

It likely has 049 or 781 oval ports. Both are about the best GM heads..

If it's in decent shape, Id buy it for sure.


Bore it .030 with some decent forged, dome pistons, those oval port heads with a good valve job and maybe some bowl work and decent solid flat tappet cam will make 500hp with an RPM air gap intake, 750 DP and headers. You can build this engine for $3k if your thrifty.

You have to spend some decent money to make 500hp with a SB... Like double..

 

Unless hes doing the bowl work himself, the machine work alone will set him back what a set of small block heads will cost. Im just trying to warn the guy....big block expenses get real out hand, real quick. I also think 500 HP with stock heads (even with work) is a bit optimistic. But then again, I could be wrong. Im just basing this on my elusive quest to hit 500 HP, and without aftermarket heads, I just cant get close. Thats the best part of this forum. Im always learning.

 

400 horses out of it NA would be more than cool with me. 500 NA would be fantastic.
I am considering building it supercharged (with a vortech unit likely) or possibly turbocharged, so 375 to 400 NA with all the accessories on it, would be more than alright with me.

The 86 Z has a 305 in it..which makes the engine in it, junk by default. From the research I've done, the biggest mod to making one fit in a Gen 3 is hammering a dent into the firewall to clear the dizzy and using an accel BEI-2. The hood clearance I'm not particularly worried about, since it'll have an aftermarket hood put on it anyway, though apparently a low profile LS6 manifold, and a holley will fit under the stocker.

I've got the SBC already, with my 89 C4, which is getting some new heads, cam, and new AZ runners to replace my edelbrock runners this year, in about a month.
If I found the right C3 for the 454, I'd swap it in that instead.

As it stands with the Camaro I'm not worried about ruining it's handling....since even with suspension mods that it's going to even do anything resembling touching my modded C4's handling, even if I left the boat anchor, under the hood. (that and TPI engines with iron heads like the boat anchor has weigh 600ish fully dressed anyway)

C3s that are budget minded, that haven't half rusted away, are getting pretty rare. It'd have to be the right car, right time. I can always work on the engine, and decide what car I'm putting it in later. So it's not entirely out of the question.

I just feel that I shouldn't let a good engine go to waste, and that I think a BB Chevy project could be fun. It's one of the quintessential engines that I think every car guy should have at some point. I've had some fun ones already.. like my 3.8 Firebird (ported everything...heavily ported everything, cam, and headers... it was making 320 horses NA, before someone ran into the car, and I had to get rid of it), the TPI C4 which is an ongoing thing.

BB C3, or a BB swapped Gen 3 F body I think would be cool. I'm not out to set any records with it, just something I can build, tweak on and have fun with.

 

Put an 8-71 on it and make 800hp.

And, it would look cool.

 

Hmmm.. We just made 441hp/435tq out of a .060 396, stock 208 square port heads with a valve job, absolutely no porting or bowl work, and these are closed chamber heads and they flow terrible.. This was using a stock 65' 396/425hp intake manifold (3 hole plenum--aka. Sucks) and stock exhaust manifolds.. The carb was only a 650cfm when we needed a 750...Only thing this engine had was a good HYD roller valvetrain.

So if I couldn't make 60 more HP with 50+ cubic inches, better flowing open chamber heads, much better intake manifold and headers, then I'd give up playing with engines.

All about part selection and spending the money where you need it.

I have a ton of buddies with small blocks that make anywhere from 500-640hp, they all have spent a ton more then a big block would cost to make the same power..

But yes, big block aftermarket heads are very expensive, the flip side is a small block aftermarket block is expensive and a necessity so.... It's a wash..

A 650hp small block can easily cost you $10k+to build... 650hp big block will cost you $8k

 

Well then that certainly raises the optimism level then with the build up. I've not done any building with BBCs (this is my first BBC) so I don't know much about what's a realistic number for a streetable engine with one. As much as the car would be a toy, I'd like to be able to at least take 80 mile trips (40 each way) with it, reliably if I wanted on weekends.

 

Key items:

You need the correct dome pistons to get your compression up to 10.0-1 with the open chamber heads (118-120cc). That is the key to making some power with the smog 454s.

Do a good valve job on the heads, stock valves should be ok at that power level, any bowl work you could afford will help you..the ports are plenty big but the bowls need to be blended big time.

On a budget, stick with a solid flat tappet cam if you can live with occassional valve adjustments, pick something that will match your 10-1 compression and allow you to spin to 6k rpms minimum. You can also do a HYD flat tappet if you don't want to adjust valves and still make decent power... Something like a 23x/24x*@.050". Maybe look at the Lunati VooDoo series. Obviously a HYD roller will net you the most power and best driveability, as well as most reliability....but...it's pricey.($2k ish for full roller package with everything you need). I think the solid flat tappet will make the most power per dollar, just keep in mind the inherent risk of flattening out cams these days.

RPM air gap intake, 750DP (if you have good clearance for this)
1 7/8" x 3" headers.

I would think this ball park combo should get you very close to 500hp...

 

This would be a decent HYD flat tappet cam for you if you can get the compression where it needs to be and a good intake on it.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2152&gid=287

Here is a pretty nasty solid flat tappet that would probably work well.. Ofcourse this is assuming you have the correct gear ratio and converter.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=3251&gid=342

I'd do the SFT personally...more revs, more power.

 

Lots of great info in these posts.
Here's another question that might be a little out of left field.

How good are the 454 vortec heads vs, the heads on these older engines?
I know with the sbc, they're a pretty solid head (good cheap hp vs a non vortec sbc head.) that outflow alot of other heads out there.

The vortec heads for the 454 look pretty inexpensive on ebay. Like arguably cheaper than rebuilding and reworking the heads on this block kind of cheaper. Would they even bolt up?

If the stockers are the better head I don't mind going through them, just looking for the best performance for the money and time invested.

 

As I'm sure you know, but just to confirm that you do, Gen V BBC parts are pretty much the only non-interchangable stuff.

If you have 781's or 049's keep em, you got the diamond in the rough. The Vortec heads on BBC aren't as sought after as their SBC sisters. That's not to say you cant make power with them, but they are usually part of the articles that say "You CAN Make Power with Vortec Heads" kind of thing, whereas large ovals are almost universally agreed upon as the ultimate street heads.

ajrothm obviously knows his stuff, so I'd take his advise. If you're interested, I just finished a build similar to what he suggests, specs are in my build thread but they follow the same thing he outlined, a nice lunati hyd roller, domed pistons, and touched up the heads etc.

 

Thanks again to everyone who's contributed to answering my questions.
I'll definitely be using the heads that came on it, unless I find money elsewhere from another project to go aluminum (mostly for weight savings).
I take it the C3s (and I know I'll need a low rise intake if I go with the Gen 3 BBC swap) will also need a low rise intake so the hood will clear it?

 

Pull the tins and make sure you check those head numbers. There is a chance you got 236 heads, that's what my truck block came with. I picked up 781's off craigslist for $100. Your heads dictate your build, so knowing those numbers (and better yet, CCing them) are critical.

 

I'll snag some pics when I go out today or tomorrow (it's so gorgeous out today...I just don't know if the hill leading to the shed the engine is stored in is dry yet...if it is maybe I'll see about hauling it home?)

So the 236s are the head to avoid? Are they really bad or just not as good as the 049s and 781s?

 

The 236 is a "peanut port" head, generally, hot rodders stay away from them because they will limit your high end HP potential. The aforementioned 781 and 049 heads are large ovals which are the happy middle ground between the peanut port (high torque, low power ceiling) and square port (loss of low end torque, best for high end HP).

BUT and here is the but, most guys who bash pp heads want big numbers on the dyno sheet (it makes your man parts bigger, haven't you heard?) In street use, you feel torque. As I stated, personally, I use the 781's, but there are street guys out there with some nasty budget pp head big blocks that will burn tires for 4 blocks if you want them to.

It's a matter of choice, which can be aided by an honest conversation with yourself on what you want your car to do.

 

As a long tube runner tpi guy, I love the torque and throttle response. Between those two factors and the looks it's why I upgraded the intake runners and base manifold rather than upgrading to the miniram/lt1 style. That and...lets be honest... if I want to make more than 375 hp on an sbc.... boost is the way to go anyway.

So the 236s are the grunt heads, the 781s the middle. The 454 build is going to be nastier at least in NA form than my sbc C4.

As long as the heads that are on there are decent I'm good to go. I'm not adverse to putting boost to a motor if I ever get a serious craving for ***** crazy power.

The 454 will be a street/track build, from some of the builds I'm seeing out there, on this forum and some crate motors on ebay, my goals are pretty modest in NA form at least. I'd have originally been happy with 400 hp (with accessories), and some serious torque. The way I see it, the C6 ZO6, C6 ZR1 and C7ZO6 get by on 650 or less power.

I'm thinking more like 450 to 475 horse now probably for the 454.

 

95% of BBC builds can do that easy.

Not to throw another wrench into your plans, but these days the difference in building a 496 and a 454 are miniscule and you get significant gains. Stroke her out if you ask me!