I am going to look at a potential 69 BB car this weekend. The owner says it's an BB L71 coupe and is in partial restoration. He states that the block was replaced back in the day and has no # stamped on the block. If the dealership replaced a block, would they not re-stamp the # from the old block or no? I guess the only way to verify the car's options is from window sticker or build sheet. Hopefully he has those items....
Rich

 

A good many of the GM warranty replacement blocks were stamped with CE. When you see the car, ask the seller if he/she has any documentation from GM involving the block swap.

Not necessarily.

 

Thanks! Yeah, I am a C4 guy, but C3's have been my passion and this one has the hard work done. I have been reading through some C3 threads here and someone mentioned that if the block had been decked the stamping would be wiped out. Owner states that a 454 crank was installed when the motor was rebuilt recently, so I guess I can looks for fresh machine work around the pad area and judge from there. Again, hoping for some documentation.
Rich

 

Without a proper stamp pad it's now a NOM. If there's documentation proving it had been built with a BB and the casting numbers are correct, date codes within reason, that may elevate the price a bit but not likely as high as a documented car with a proper stamp. Try to estimate the cars value if it had the stamp, drop the price by some percentage, maybe 10%? 20%? If the car was a very rare model the replacement block may not be as big a hit on price.

It may be a great driver, nothing wrong with that, just won't be a desirable collectable IMHO.

 

Dealers did not stamp blocks. it is either correct original motor stamped,
or a replacement motor.
what is inside a replacement motor is unknown until you open it up, pay accordingly.

 

You, like many in a similar position, have to decide what it is you want. It doesn't matter whether you are looking at Tiffany lamps or old Corvettes. It's important to know the market and compare it to what you're looking at and what can be proven so. If you are paying an L71 price for the car, then the owner should be more than eager to show you documentation that the car is what it's being billed as. If you're looking for an L71 car and all you have is this sellers word, then you got squat. Yeah, you can see the 3x2 but that doesn't mean Chevy put it on there. Anecdotes and vague language have no place in the conversation. By that I mean, if the seller really did say "back in the day" then you'll want some clarification. Phrases like that leave the interpretation up to you and most would think it was done as a warranty replacement. It could mean that, but it could also mean a couple weeks ago. A warranty replacement would mean a short block identical to the one the factory put between the fenders. If you don't know as a fact it was done that way, you'd be pretty pissed to find out later that it was a wheezer 8:1 station wagon short block. Again, making sure things are as they are being described. Also, what's a bigblock car? Is that a Corvette that has a bigblock -regardless of the way it left the factory?

So, yes, the owner should be able to show you the build sheet/tank sticker and any other authentic documentation, like the warranty receipt for the engine for the car. A window sticker means nothing since you can buy those to say whatever you want them to.

As to the questions about how you might authenticate some of the engine story; there will be a casting date on the block that will tell you when the iron was poured and you can make a determination from there. Also, look for the casting number and dates on the heads and intake. Those were usually put on the new shortblock. If the engine was a long block, then the you'd be looking for the casting dates of the block and heads to be within a couple months of one another. I would also question why they put a 454 crank in the thing. It's not like 427 cranks are hard to come by.

I don't know, maybe he's asking a price that is in line with a bastard project car that has more stories than it does factory parts. If that's the case then you can negotiate the price for what it is you know to be true.

 

First question, is the seller asking numbers matching money?

Second question, are you looking for a numbers car?

 

This is correct.....my father had a 67' SS396 Camaro with a "CE" block......warranty replacement piece.
Some say it stands for "Crate Engine" but I am not 100% sure......

Jebby

 

Well I'm not necessary looking for a # matching car, BUT the car has some desirable options that with documentation, could make the price worth it. The motor is a BB L71 with L89 heads and side pipes.

On the up side, the frame and suspension, brakes have been redone, motor, trans, rear, carbs all rebuilt and new paint. On the down side all exterior trim, weather stripping and bumpers need to be installed. The interior remains gutted and still needs to be installed. He's asking $35 grand for the work that he's done thus far, but a lot still needs to be done. Even with no documentation, some highly desirable options.

 

Unfortunately what we put into these cars doesn't always count for much when we sell. $35K is getting into matching numbers, very nice condition overall territory.

 

Hi S,
A 69 bb car is a desirable and often valuable car.
I'm always curious when someone gets as far into a restoration/build as you describe and then decides to get out from under it.
Certainly there can be many perfectly sensible reasons, but I'd look at the entire car and what it will take to complete it VERY seriously.
It sounds like if you paid his price you'd likely have AT LEAST $45,000 in it.
Wouldn't that very likely be quite near the upper limit for a 69 without its original motor?
Would there be any room left for you IF YOU needed to let it go?
Aren't 'finishing' cars almost always a lot more work and money than a person thinks?
Regards,
Alan

 

Yeah Alan my thoughts/question exactly. Who goes this far to decide F'it and sell? I will know more on Sunday but I'm treading cautiously at this point especially if interior parts are not complete and I need to start purchasing things like gauges wiring harness's.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Rich

 

FWIW: You're describing an incomplete project car with an asking price of $35K. Your time might be better spent staying home this weekend. $35K could buy you more car than what is being offered.

 

Yeah, after doing some research, I'm starting to see that. Well I'll go and see if he's willing to take less.
Rich

 

Good luck. At the least, the afternoon should be interesting.

 

I just picked up a nice '70 LS5 with 54k documented miles, matching numbers motor and M21 for less than the $35k he's asking for what amounts to a project. Granted, mine isn't a '69 L71, but it's a few details away from a solid #2 car. They're out there. Good luck with your search.

 

CE stands for counter exchange, which means the block was replaced at a dealer with the old one being exchanged for the new one, usually under warranty.

 

I have a 68 BB wth a ce8 warranty block. It was not stamped with vin# as others have stated.
It doesn't bother me and I knew what it was when I purchased it.
Paid accordingly.
I have the tank sticker and it was a factory BB.
I did not pay crazy money because I wanted to drive it as much as I can.
I'd rather have a ce block than a decked block.
A decked block unless you know your casting numbers and dates could be a tall deck truck block. Jerry 72 cited a similar scenario in his above post.

An original small block vs a faked big block is better if your "focus" is strictly numbers car investment.
I'm not taking this car with me into the after life.
I bought a good strong driver and drive it I do.
There are several 1969 and 1968 corvettes for sale on Craigslist in Phila.
if your interested. They are nice looking and in the 25k range.
None are mine just an observation.
Look at as many as you can. Use the bad ones as a training tool so when a good one comes along you'll be more the wiser.
Remember you can't return it if it's a ��
Marshal

 

Welcome to the C3 LS5 club, you need to add some pictures in the LS5 thread.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rs-thread.html

 

Well, this one was a bust, went to look at it and it was way to much money for an undocumented car that was an empty shell and needed paint and a lot more work. Wouldn't come down on the $35,000 price so my search for BB continues. Thanks for everyone's comments.
Rich