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Take a look at this 68 tri power. I have a particular interest in this VIN number so I just googled it and to my surprise this car popped up. Claimed it was sold on eBay a few years ago I think?
I don't know much about engine pads, but that one looks fake to me. They are claiming the car is numbers matching which would obviously make a huge difference in price.
So the C3 Registry has this car listed in 2008 on eBay with no motor or transmission. What's the odds somebody found the original L89 engine and reunited it with the car? There's your answer.
Last edited by JohnnyQuik; Dec 27, 2016 at 06:51 PM.
it's on the C3 registry and might have part of a tank sticker but states it needs a frames and no engine or trani so not matching numbers
This is a RARE FACTORY ORIGINAL L-89 Aluminum Cylinder Head Equipment 427/435 Tri-Power Corvette Coupe. As found on the ORIGINAL (REAL) TANK SHEET - This Car has the following options: L 89 AA ALUM CYL HEAD EQUIP, K 66 DA TRANSISTOR IGN, G 81 PA (3.70 Positraction Axle), M 21 AA (Muncie 21 Close Ratio Sychromesh Trans), PT6 AA (Red Stripe F-70 15 Nylon Tires), U69 EE (AM/FM Stereo Radio), AO1AA (Soft Ray Tinted Glass), J50 QA (Power Brakes), L71 AA (435 HP 427 CI TRI- POWER Engine), N11AA (Special OFF-ROAD SERVICE Exhaust), PO1AA (Bright Metal Wheel Covers). L89 equiped cars are RARE and more desirable than a standard 435. This car will need a frame as well as a restoration drivetrain. There is no engine or transmission with the car- however, I do have the Big Block Radiator and Shroud as well as the original spare Front Grilles and Brackets, Spare Tire Tub and Cover, Transistor Ignition Amplifier -as well as the original Fuel Tank. I have a signed Affidavit from the second owner stating and Guarranteeing originality of the Tank Sheet and verifying its removal from this car- as well as copies of the Pennsylvania Title showing ownership since 1976. This car is a terrific Barn Find. Almost as good as finding an L88 !! Colors from the trim plate. Buit date is L25. 49,055 miles from the odometer. December 29, 2008.
I don't know much about engine pads, but that one looks fake to me. They are claiming the car is numbers matching which would obviously make a huge difference in price.
Technically, the owner's claim is correct; however, "matching numbers" and "original" are mutually exclusive terms.
In this case, it is not the original engine... In spite of what numbers someone may have stamped into the pad.
it's on the C3 registry and might have part of a tank sticker but states it needs a frames and no engine or trani so not matching numbers
The fact it didn't have an engine before doesn't mean the engine in it today doesn't have numbers on it that match that car's VIN.
Originally Posted by Rowdy Rat
Technically, the owner's claim is correct; however, "matching numbers" and "original" are mutually exclusive terms.
In this case, it is not the original engine... In spite of what numbers someone may have stamped into the pad.
I don't believe "matching numbers" and "original" are mutually exclusive terms... most original engines unless they have been decked, also have "matching numbers." One does not preclude the other.
I would say "matching numbers" are not necessarily original... but they could be. Or it could be a restamp.
In this case, barring a miraculous reunion of the car and engine, I'd agree this matching number engine is a fake.
The fact it didn't have an engine before doesn't mean the engine in it today doesn't have numbers on it that match that car's VIN.
I don't believe "matching numbers" and "original" are mutually exclusive terms... most original engines unless they have been decked, also have "matching numbers." One does not preclude the other.
I would say "matching numbers" are not necessarily original... but they could be. Or it could be a restamp.
In this case, barring a miraculous reunion of the car and engine, I'd agree this matching number engine is a fake.
I never thought of it that way but I guess it's true. The numbers DO match. They just aren't real....
That is done...a lot. Sometimes, the owner asks for that to be done when the engine rebuilder grinds off the originals without the owner expecting it. That is sort of the "legitimate" reason for restamping. However, ANY restamp of the original number codes is not completely legitimate as potential buyer will notice the stamp doesn't look right and will doubt authenticity. In fact, being restamped, that engine will NEVER again be completely "original". Most knowledgeable rebuilders will put an additional mark/character of some kind along with the restamp to indicate that the engine is the original unit but it has been restamped.
Most restamps are done for the explicit purpose of misleading the buyer into thinking the car has its original engine (which it almost NEVER does), so that a premium price can be justified. This is the "downside" of the 'matching numbers' conundrum.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Dec 28, 2016 at 01:34 AM.
This car is rarer than you guys think. I noticed no rear cut outs for exhaust, which makes it the unicorn of corvettes, a 1968 factory side pipe car! Does Richard Rawlins know about this treasure waiting to be on his show?
In all seriousness, how much does he want for the car? The frame is shot, but maybe the rest could be transplanted over if you got it for a reasonable price. Basically buying a body and motor.
I don't believe "matching numbers" and "original" are mutually exclusive terms... most original engines unless they have been decked, also have "matching numbers." One does not preclude the other.
I've seen misstamped engines and transmissions where the numbers don't "match," but the engine/transmission are most certainly original to the car. I'm going to maintain that the two terms are mutually exclusive... Original doesn't always mean matching numbers and matching numbers doesn't always mean original.
I would say "matching numbers" are not necessarily original... but they could be. Or it could be a restamp.
Agreed.
In this case, barring a miraculous reunion of the car and engine, I'd agree this matching number engine is a fake.
I've heard countless miraculous original engine finds over the years... I don't believe most of them. In this case, there are other obvious factors in play as well.
Well guys if you read my original post I said I had an interest in the VIN so I googled it.
Heres my interest:
I was offered a 427 shortblock in pieces. This block has been in a garage since the early 90s here in southwest PA. there was obviously no concern about attempting to fake this engine pad, as the seller did not care one bit about value and simply wanted it gone.
Pretty crazy that i google the vin and the car still exists!
So I believe I do in fact have the original engine for this car
Pretty crazy that i google the vin and the car still exists!
So I believe I do in fact have the original engine for this car
While it is impossible to determine a real stamp entirely from a photograph, what you just posted very well could be authentic... Something that can't be said for the engine that is currently the car.
And while I still maintain that most of the "found engine" stories are like old wives' tales, your story appears to be one of the few that just might be true. Great find!
Here is where it is going to get interesting...
I would be curious to hear how your conversation with the current owner goes. One would think that they would do whatever is necessary to recover what is potentially the original block to a very valuable car... That is not always the case.
I think if it was me, I would contact Al Grenning Form NCRS. He has a huge library of engine stamp pad photo's and would be the best person to contact. Good luck.
Well guys if you read my original post I said I had an interest in the VIN so I googled it.
Heres my interest:
I was offered a 427 shortblock in pieces. This block has been in a garage since the early 90s here in southwest PA. there was obviously no concern about attempting to fake this engine pad, as the seller did not care one bit about value and simply wanted it gone.
Pretty crazy that i google the vin and the car still exists!
So I believe I do in fact have the original engine for this car
This is so awesome............I would not be able to contain myself to bust the people who are selling it.....
Well guys if you read my original post I said I had an interest in the VIN so I googled it.
Heres my interest:
I was offered a 427 shortblock in pieces. This block has been in a garage since the early 90s here in southwest PA. there was obviously no concern about attempting to fake this engine pad, as the seller did not care one bit about value and simply wanted it gone.
Pretty crazy that i google the vin and the car still exists!
So I believe I do in fact have the original engine for this car
Very interesting, never heard of this happening before. This further adds to my suspicion there are quite a few claimed 'numbers matching original' big block Corvettes out there which are not original. At least this one appears to be a legit factory big block car, not made up. If you can get the car for the price of a NOM, you'd have something worth restoring?
I read somewhere Al Grenning will authenticate only for owners. He may be willing to authenticate the block if you own it... Given what appears to be quite a lot of fraud, phony 'original' big block cars, Al Grenning's services would appear to be good insurance.
The engine pad in the pictures I am looking at looks pretty good. I have linked (3) 68 cars with engines I found on ebay, this was not one of them, but to me the stamp pad looks pretty darn good.
As for the car, it has documentation as an L89. It is numbers match as far as drivetrain goes, and rare. With sidepipes, very special.
There arent many of these and most do not have the original engine, so this is a perfect candidate for someone looking for a total restoration to do themselves, and perhaps pick up some money for their time. You are buying the documentation. The car just has to match that. In this case it appears it does.
As for the phrase "numbers matching original"....thats way too nebulous to even begin to discuss. Many people have a different idea of what that means. If I purchase a 69 435 convertible with 2,345 total miles that was hit in the left front fender last week and had only fiberglass damage...and I repair the car using a perfect same color front clip from the car 6 places before on the production line...and keep the original paint...can I call it "numbers matching original"?
In my opinion...the goal should not be what you or others call your car, or describe it as. The goal should be preservation of what we know is original, period or significant... and understanding what is not.
Last edited by international blue; Jan 1, 2017 at 02:26 PM.
Thoughts on this engine pad
......I would not be able to contain myself to bust the people who are selling it.....
