Repair or Replace Rear Fenders ???
05-21-2017, 07:11 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Repair or Replace Rear Fenders ???
After blasting I'm able to get a good look at the work done on the body by previous owners. I'm debating weather to repair or replace both rear fenders. I already have a set of left and right side exhaust fenders I bought for another project from Sermersheim's. The issues are the same on both fenders. I will list 5 the areas of concern and it does apply to both pictures. The first 5 are of the left fender and the second 5 pictures are of the right side. If they are repaired the repair will show from the back side and I really don't want to see that. Did that statement just make my decision for me ?????
The fenders are original side exhaust fenders so want to keep the correct look on the backside as well. New fenders would do this.
The 5th picture in each set is showing the dog leg seam at the door jamb. When the door is closed it doesn't come close to being flush with the dog leg. I have this problem on another 69 too. The original adhesive seam is too thick and this would have to be ground out and reinstalled to align with the door. Again this is partially what's driving the idea of replacing the fenders. I realize repairing the holes where the mud flaps were installed is minimal but just one more item to repair. All opinions are welcome.....
Ned
The fenders are original side exhaust fenders so want to keep the correct look on the backside as well. New fenders would do this.
The 5th picture in each set is showing the dog leg seam at the door jamb. When the door is closed it doesn't come close to being flush with the dog leg. I have this problem on another 69 too. The original adhesive seam is too thick and this would have to be ground out and reinstalled to align with the door. Again this is partially what's driving the idea of replacing the fenders. I realize repairing the holes where the mud flaps were installed is minimal but just one more item to repair. All opinions are welcome.....
Ned
Last edited by NMT1957; 05-21-2017 at 07:14 AM.
05-21-2017, 07:40 AM
#2
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IMHO keep and repair your original fenders.
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MISTERZ06 (05-22-2017)
05-21-2017, 08:10 AM
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Hi Ned,
I would be very concerned about the appearance of the rear side of fenders after the repair, in those areas, on a side exhaust car.
Regards,
Alan
I would be very concerned about the appearance of the rear side of fenders after the repair, in those areas, on a side exhaust car.
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; 05-21-2017 at 09:34 AM.
05-21-2017, 09:29 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
05-21-2017, 09:33 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I agree that the appearance is critical. It's easy to make the outer surface look good but to do repairs in this area would not look good on the backside on the panel. I've been trying to document any repairs that could affect the original appearance of the side exhaust option. I'm not getting the car judged nor do I plan on ever selling it. I'm leaning towards replacing both fenders.
Ned
05-21-2017, 11:00 AM
#6
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Hi Ned,
I was already a member of the NCRS when I was restoring my car.
But I really never thought I'd have any interest in presenting it to be Flight Judged.
But when it was finished it seemed like having it judged would in someway validate what it was.
Now I'm glad I put in the effort to prepare it for Flight Judging. It forced me to look at it with even a more critical eye.
So don't rule out Flight Judging!
Regards,
Alan
What is the inner surface of the Serm.. pieces like?
Note the vertical 'grooves'.
Do 69 fenders have them?
I was already a member of the NCRS when I was restoring my car.
But I really never thought I'd have any interest in presenting it to be Flight Judged.
But when it was finished it seemed like having it judged would in someway validate what it was.
Now I'm glad I put in the effort to prepare it for Flight Judging. It forced me to look at it with even a more critical eye.
So don't rule out Flight Judging!
Regards,
Alan
What is the inner surface of the Serm.. pieces like?
Note the vertical 'grooves'.
Do 69 fenders have them?
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MISTERZ06 (05-22-2017)
05-21-2017, 02:33 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Alan,
I don't see a seam on the inside of the left or right original fenders as you can see by the pictures. Also a picture of the Sermersheims fender doesn't have a seam.
I don't see a seam on the inside of the left or right original fenders as you can see by the pictures. Also a picture of the Sermersheims fender doesn't have a seam.
05-21-2017, 02:54 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Here's some pictures of the previous owners repair on the rear fenders from the back side. Pretty Nasty !!!!! I removed the body filler on the outside with the media blasting. This would all need to be ground out before starting. Another reason I'm considering replacing the fenders.
Ned
Ned
05-21-2017, 04:45 PM
#9
Race Director
I will write this and take it for what it is worth to you.
You can not compare the quarter that Alan has shown photos of ...because his car is NOT a 1968...so a different mold was made.
QUARTER PANEL DAMAGE:
I can repair these problems and you could not tell EXCEPT for the visual aspect on the backside of the panel. If you closed your eyes and ran your hand across the repairs on the backside of the quarters you could not tell they were fixed...BUT...you would be able to see the repair area.
SO...depending if applying a paint to the backside of the quarter panel repair area is NOT something you can live with....then replace the quarters....but you then also have to consider using the correct adhesive so it matched the reddish/brown adhesive GM used....and that a trained eye can tell that the quarters are not original. SO...it depends on how picky you are.
If your Corvette were in my shop I would be doing you an injustice by trying to get you to put quarters on. Especially knowing you care nothing about a judge looking over your car.
I use some tricks that I have found on my own over the years to modify the body in certain areas that correct problems that they are know to have. Actually one of your photos shows this problem that is well know about. 99.9% of the time I do these modification processes on Corvettes like your especially if the owner do not care a hoot about the critical judging entities. And when they are done...unless you know where to look...you will not see them.
DUB
You can not compare the quarter that Alan has shown photos of ...because his car is NOT a 1968...so a different mold was made.
QUARTER PANEL DAMAGE:
I can repair these problems and you could not tell EXCEPT for the visual aspect on the backside of the panel. If you closed your eyes and ran your hand across the repairs on the backside of the quarters you could not tell they were fixed...BUT...you would be able to see the repair area.
SO...depending if applying a paint to the backside of the quarter panel repair area is NOT something you can live with....then replace the quarters....but you then also have to consider using the correct adhesive so it matched the reddish/brown adhesive GM used....and that a trained eye can tell that the quarters are not original. SO...it depends on how picky you are.
If your Corvette were in my shop I would be doing you an injustice by trying to get you to put quarters on. Especially knowing you care nothing about a judge looking over your car.
I use some tricks that I have found on my own over the years to modify the body in certain areas that correct problems that they are know to have. Actually one of your photos shows this problem that is well know about. 99.9% of the time I do these modification processes on Corvettes like your especially if the owner do not care a hoot about the critical judging entities. And when they are done...unless you know where to look...you will not see them.
DUB
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MISTERZ06 (05-22-2017)
05-21-2017, 06:28 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Dub,
I was hoping for a quick answer like "replace the fenders". Ha not that easy though. I take everything you have to say here as fact since you are the expert. I understand what you're saying about not being able to feel the repair but able to see it. I guess the back side repair would be as nice as the front side if you did it. I guess the decision has to be based on what end result I want like you said. Oh and also my level of skill is important. I think the easiest for me to do would be to put new fenders on but I've never done it before, your phone will be ringing off the hook if I go that route. Alan threw in the "don't rule out getting it judged" line and has me thinking even more now. I'd like to know how the car would be judged if it had replacement rear fenders??? Is the original colored adhesive available or able to be tinted to match the original? My plan was to have the underside of the body as original and I went as far as to remove every bit of over spray and undercoating there was under there. It is now smooth shiny original fiberglass. I was going to follow through with the rest of the underneath including rear fenders too. Ok so it's back to me deciding what I want to see under there. Hmmm
Ned
I was hoping for a quick answer like "replace the fenders". Ha not that easy though. I take everything you have to say here as fact since you are the expert. I understand what you're saying about not being able to feel the repair but able to see it. I guess the back side repair would be as nice as the front side if you did it. I guess the decision has to be based on what end result I want like you said. Oh and also my level of skill is important. I think the easiest for me to do would be to put new fenders on but I've never done it before, your phone will be ringing off the hook if I go that route. Alan threw in the "don't rule out getting it judged" line and has me thinking even more now. I'd like to know how the car would be judged if it had replacement rear fenders??? Is the original colored adhesive available or able to be tinted to match the original? My plan was to have the underside of the body as original and I went as far as to remove every bit of over spray and undercoating there was under there. It is now smooth shiny original fiberglass. I was going to follow through with the rest of the underneath including rear fenders too. Ok so it's back to me deciding what I want to see under there. Hmmm
Ned
05-21-2017, 06:44 PM
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Hi Ned,
I think it would take some 'inventive/ingenious' work to make the Serm… look like the inside of an original fender.
Have you considered looking for service replacement fenders?
Regards,
Alan
I think it would take some 'inventive/ingenious' work to make the Serm… look like the inside of an original fender.
Have you considered looking for service replacement fenders?
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; 05-21-2017 at 06:56 PM.
05-21-2017, 06:59 PM
#12
Race Director
Dub,
I was hoping for a quick answer like "replace the fenders". Ha not that easy though. I take everything you have to say here as fact since you are the expert. I understand what you're saying about not being able to feel the repair but able to see it. I guess the back side repair would be as nice as the front side if you did it.
I was hoping for a quick answer like "replace the fenders". Ha not that easy though. I take everything you have to say here as fact since you are the expert. I understand what you're saying about not being able to feel the repair but able to see it. I guess the back side repair would be as nice as the front side if you did it.
I guess the decision has to be based on what end result I want like you said. Oh and also my level of skill is important. I think the easiest for me to do would be to put new fenders on but I've never done it before, your phone will be ringing off the hook if I go that route.
BE AWARE....that regardless of either way you plan on fixing this...I would HIGHLY advise you in getting your head wrapped around PRACTICING a bit before you jump in and attempt to do this. I AM NOT trying to scare you...just wanting you to get comfortable in something you have never done so when you got o do it on your car you re CONFIDENT!!! Because there are others here on the forum who do not do this testing or practicing first and find that when they choose to change the way things must or should be done...becasue they feel they know what they are doing...they find that the product they are using does not work as designed and they wonder why.
Alan threw in the "don't rule out getting it judged" line and has me thinking even more now. I'd like to know how the car would be judged if it had replacement rear fenders??? Is the original colored adhesive available or able to be tinted to match the original? My plan was to have the underside of the body as original and I went as far as to remove every bit of over spray and undercoating there was under there. It is now smooth shiny original fiberglass. I was going to follow through with the rest of the underneath including rear fenders too. Ok so it's back to me deciding what I want to see under there. Hmmm
Ned
Ned
Basically...do as you wish (obviously)...if you want to do it for perfect factory correct judging...them enjoy the 'ride' in doing that. If you want your car super nice and clean...enjoy the 'ride' on that also.
DUB
05-21-2017, 07:54 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ned
05-21-2017, 08:16 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Dub,
I have the rear half of a car that has been sitting outside for 5 plus years. The fiberglass panels are in good shape. I was going to use this as my "practice piece" before I start any body work. Originally I was going to damage a rear fender in the similar way my fender is damaged and make the repair to get the feel of things and see how the materials are to work with. I only paid a few hundred for the whole rear half of that car. I media blasted the rear panel of it already to see how it came out. I was then going to go through the process of taking it to paint with acrylic lacquer and on through to buffing. That panel has a lot of different surfaces around the tail lights to experiment with. Seems crazy but I need to see how it goes. I have it on a dolly and can roll it in and out of the shop as needed. I am leaning toward replacing the fenders since I think it would be easier for me at my skill level and give me the best look inside, although not NCRS correct.
I do appreciate the offer to be able to call. I'm going to take you up on that before I start. I have a lot of body shop experience but zero fiberglass experience. I will need products and procedure help for sure.
I have the rear half of a car that has been sitting outside for 5 plus years. The fiberglass panels are in good shape. I was going to use this as my "practice piece" before I start any body work. Originally I was going to damage a rear fender in the similar way my fender is damaged and make the repair to get the feel of things and see how the materials are to work with. I only paid a few hundred for the whole rear half of that car. I media blasted the rear panel of it already to see how it came out. I was then going to go through the process of taking it to paint with acrylic lacquer and on through to buffing. That panel has a lot of different surfaces around the tail lights to experiment with. Seems crazy but I need to see how it goes. I have it on a dolly and can roll it in and out of the shop as needed. I am leaning toward replacing the fenders since I think it would be easier for me at my skill level and give me the best look inside, although not NCRS correct.
I do appreciate the offer to be able to call. I'm going to take you up on that before I start. I have a lot of body shop experience but zero fiberglass experience. I will need products and procedure help for sure.
05-22-2017, 05:22 AM
#15
Dub,
I have the rear half of a car that has been sitting outside for 5 plus years. The fiberglass panels are in good shape. I was going to use this as my "practice piece" before I start any body work. Originally I was going to damage a rear fender in the similar way my fender is damaged and make the repair to get the feel of things and see how the materials are to work with. I only paid a few hundred for the whole rear half of that car. I media blasted the rear panel of it already to see how it came out. I was then going to go through the process of taking it to paint with acrylic lacquer and on through to buffing. That panel has a lot of different surfaces around the tail lights to experiment with. Seems crazy but I need to see how it goes. I have it on a dolly and can roll it in and out of the shop as needed. I am leaning toward replacing the fenders since I think it would be easier for me at my skill level and give me the best look inside, although not NCRS correct.
I do appreciate the offer to be able to call. I'm going to take you up on that before I start. I have a lot of body shop experience but zero fiberglass experience. I will need products and procedure help for sure.
I have the rear half of a car that has been sitting outside for 5 plus years. The fiberglass panels are in good shape. I was going to use this as my "practice piece" before I start any body work. Originally I was going to damage a rear fender in the similar way my fender is damaged and make the repair to get the feel of things and see how the materials are to work with. I only paid a few hundred for the whole rear half of that car. I media blasted the rear panel of it already to see how it came out. I was then going to go through the process of taking it to paint with acrylic lacquer and on through to buffing. That panel has a lot of different surfaces around the tail lights to experiment with. Seems crazy but I need to see how it goes. I have it on a dolly and can roll it in and out of the shop as needed. I am leaning toward replacing the fenders since I think it would be easier for me at my skill level and give me the best look inside, although not NCRS correct.
I do appreciate the offer to be able to call. I'm going to take you up on that before I start. I have a lot of body shop experience but zero fiberglass experience. I will need products and procedure help for sure.
rvzio
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MISTERZ06 (05-22-2017)
05-22-2017, 07:11 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
rvzio,
The donor body is in good condition. The only other practice piece I have is an extra exhaust panel which wouldn't give me enough to work with for practice. Hey I need lot's of practice !!! I'll look around for other donor parts before any major changes to this one.
Ned
The donor body is in good condition. The only other practice piece I have is an extra exhaust panel which wouldn't give me enough to work with for practice. Hey I need lot's of practice !!! I'll look around for other donor parts before any major changes to this one.
Ned
05-22-2017, 07:13 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ned
05-22-2017, 09:51 AM
#18
Safety Car
laying fiber glass is pretty easy, prepare everything ahead of time, have a helper available.
the better job you do laying the glass = less grinding work.
the better job you do laying the glass = less grinding work.
05-23-2017, 07:21 PM
#19
Race Director
Ned,
Now ... by all means you can do what you want and how you want to do it....but if you were an employee of mine and began your apprenticeship. I would not have you bust up a good panel.
You do not need a busted panel to repair BECAUSE you would start off by laminating up your own flat piece of fiberglass to make sure you get the lamination process down....which as Roger mentioned...is not that hard to do.
I understand that you have not done this and are concerned that if you can do it..and I will say..that you can IF YOU WANT TO DO IT. And you do not need any help by having a helper in doing this. These areas are so small...a helper is not needed.
If you are set to wanting to cut off the quarter panel and put a new on one...that also has its own specifics on how that is done and the amount of time is much more than what you have to repair if you laminated it up.
Once again...I feel that you can do the repair and NOT replace the quarter ..and I would tell you the same thing if you were my employee..and like I have told many people in the past...."YOU are letting your head get in the way of this and over thinking it and thus...doubting yourself". REMEMBER you are not doing this all by yourself. I (along with others) will be here for you...thus... you can not screw up so bad that you ruin it...as crazy as that may seem to you. I know what it takes to fix the repair via laminating..and I know what it takes to replace a quarter panel...THUS...that is WHY I am responding the way I am because I know what each take....and I KNOW you can REPAIR it if you want to.
This is the last time I will express my thoughts on this to you...whatever you choose to do from here is up to you. Choose wisely.
I am willing to talk with you....if you choose...and if you feel that us talking will help you. PM me and I will give you my shop number.
These repairs on a scale of 1 to 10 ...where a 1 is basically a 'breeze'...and 10 is SUPER DUPER SERIOUS....is about a 3.
DUB
Now ... by all means you can do what you want and how you want to do it....but if you were an employee of mine and began your apprenticeship. I would not have you bust up a good panel.
You do not need a busted panel to repair BECAUSE you would start off by laminating up your own flat piece of fiberglass to make sure you get the lamination process down....which as Roger mentioned...is not that hard to do.
I understand that you have not done this and are concerned that if you can do it..and I will say..that you can IF YOU WANT TO DO IT. And you do not need any help by having a helper in doing this. These areas are so small...a helper is not needed.
If you are set to wanting to cut off the quarter panel and put a new on one...that also has its own specifics on how that is done and the amount of time is much more than what you have to repair if you laminated it up.
Once again...I feel that you can do the repair and NOT replace the quarter ..and I would tell you the same thing if you were my employee..and like I have told many people in the past...."YOU are letting your head get in the way of this and over thinking it and thus...doubting yourself". REMEMBER you are not doing this all by yourself. I (along with others) will be here for you...thus... you can not screw up so bad that you ruin it...as crazy as that may seem to you. I know what it takes to fix the repair via laminating..and I know what it takes to replace a quarter panel...THUS...that is WHY I am responding the way I am because I know what each take....and I KNOW you can REPAIR it if you want to.
This is the last time I will express my thoughts on this to you...whatever you choose to do from here is up to you. Choose wisely.
I am willing to talk with you....if you choose...and if you feel that us talking will help you. PM me and I will give you my shop number.
These repairs on a scale of 1 to 10 ...where a 1 is basically a 'breeze'...and 10 is SUPER DUPER SERIOUS....is about a 3.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 05-23-2017 at 07:30 PM.
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MISTERZ06 (05-23-2017)
05-24-2017, 06:45 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
DUB,
I appreciate the offer to talk through this before I start and I'm going to take you up on it. I guess the appearance of the back side of the fender is the only thing to consider at this point.
I have other repairs I will definitely be needing your advice on too.
Ned
I appreciate the offer to talk through this before I start and I'm going to take you up on it. I guess the appearance of the back side of the fender is the only thing to consider at this point.
I have other repairs I will definitely be needing your advice on too.
Ned