1970 454 coupe
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
These impressions were made with a "gang" stamp...all of the individual digits clamped in a holder and set/hammered with one blow.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Aug 30, 2017 at 09:27 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
The engine date/build code looks strange to my eye, a bit like the characters were stamped individually. With the speculation on the last digit of the VIN, uncertainty, I'd say this will raise a lot of flags with future buyers. IMO it will hurt the value, not likely to get full credit for being original. It may fetch more than an acknowledged NOM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,091
Likes: 40
That looks fake to me ...those 5 s are funky and the W ....and its not very uniform depth and spacing either . Im giving it the big " GONG " ��
the iron has lost the broach lines .
i was looking a t 454 blocks far back as 1978 trying to find original cars . They are few and far between , most had counter replacements warrenty or 402 / 396 engines replacing the 454 originals . i look at a chit load back then .....kinda like 302 Z28 s .....alot
missing the born with engines.
the iron has lost the broach lines .
i was looking a t 454 blocks far back as 1978 trying to find original cars . They are few and far between , most had counter replacements warrenty or 402 / 396 engines replacing the 454 originals . i look at a chit load back then .....kinda like 302 Z28 s .....alot
missing the born with engines.
Last edited by LS4 PILOT; Aug 30, 2017 at 10:43 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
it is still a stamp pad with an excuse, and will not get all possible points in a judging.
therefor you will take a hit at selling time when compared to a no excuses stamp.
the no excuses cars with the correct stamps , date casting codes, part numbers, doc, provenance, are the ones that go for the bigger bucks.
as stated by several, check other parts for stampings, and determine the casting date of the block by looking back behind the distributor. the tranny stamp comparison and the block casting date are very important in validating your stamp. publish those pics if you can for the experts on this site to see.
therefor you will take a hit at selling time when compared to a no excuses stamp.
the no excuses cars with the correct stamps , date casting codes, part numbers, doc, provenance, are the ones that go for the bigger bucks.
as stated by several, check other parts for stampings, and determine the casting date of the block by looking back behind the distributor. the tranny stamp comparison and the block casting date are very important in validating your stamp. publish those pics if you can for the experts on this site to see.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
1970 454
These impressions were made with a "gang" stamp...all of the individual digits clamped in a holder and set/hammered with one blow.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
Car also has a tank sticker with car. One of the things that concerns me also, is the mileage at 99,000.
Transmission has the id tag on it.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
Another thing is the mileage. Nice looking car, Asking $24,500.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
These impressions were made with a "gang" stamp...all of the individual digits clamped in a holder and set/hammered with one blow.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
The same gang stamp was used on the transmission and on the frame to tie all components together. You can look at the other stamps on your car to see if they look the same or somewhat different.
It is very possible that the original engine was rebuilt and then re-stamped with the correct information. It is also possible that a different block was reconditioned and the info pad re-stamped with the numbers that came on the other engine. The circular (mill) marks that Alan71 mentioned would lead us to believe that the engine was re-stamped: but we can't determine if the block you now have is the one that originally came with the car or not.
If the trans / frame stamps with car S/N look identical to the stamping on the engine, that would certainly raise a question as to whether the block was re-stamped. If you can also get a pic of either of those stamps and post it, that would be very 'telling'.
P.S. The reason for the stamping being 'deep' on one end and 'shallow' on the other is that the person doing that job did not have the gang stamp letters all in contact with the metal surface when the gang was struck. It was a bit cocked before being struck.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
it is still a stamp pad with an excuse, and will not get all possible points in a judging.
therefor you will take a hit at selling time when compared to a no excuses stamp.
the no excuses cars with the correct stamps , date casting codes, part numbers, doc, provenance, are the ones that go for the bigger bucks.
as stated by several, check other parts for stampings, and determine the casting date of the block by looking back behind the distributor. the tranny stamp comparison and the block casting date are very important in validating your stamp. publish those pics if you can for the experts on this site to see.
therefor you will take a hit at selling time when compared to a no excuses stamp.
the no excuses cars with the correct stamps , date casting codes, part numbers, doc, provenance, are the ones that go for the bigger bucks.
as stated by several, check other parts for stampings, and determine the casting date of the block by looking back behind the distributor. the tranny stamp comparison and the block casting date are very important in validating your stamp. publish those pics if you can for the experts on this site to see.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,266
Likes: 4,355
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi,
The current surface of the pad is not the result of the block being decked during rebuilding. Decking leaves a uniform, but not typical of production, surface.
The current surface of the pad is the result of a GRINDER being used to remove pad material in the area of the original engine assembly stamp.
What this has done to the value of the car is for the buyer to decide.
Regards,
Alan
The current surface of the pad is not the result of the block being decked during rebuilding. Decking leaves a uniform, but not typical of production, surface.
The current surface of the pad is the result of a GRINDER being used to remove pad material in the area of the original engine assembly stamp.
What this has done to the value of the car is for the buyer to decide.
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
Nice looking car. Suspension recently done in front and back. Another thing that concerns me is the mileage, 99,000.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
A restamp is always possible. However, it is possible yours is original. Especially if the motor was rebuilt at some point. Normally when a motor is rebuilt, the builder will want to "deck" the block to make sure the mating surface for the heads is true. Good builders will know on valuable cars to deck the block very lightly in order to save the original stampings. This could be the reason you have no broach marks. The 9 being more faint than the other numbers is a little unusual, but I guess that could have happened of the block was not perfectly flat there, and a little more of the metal around that number got ground off during decking than the rest of the stamp pad.
There really is no substitute for having someone knowledgeable look at the pad in person.
FWIW: If I was looking to buy that car, I would be concerned about a lot more things than just the stamp pad. If everything else was in order, and a knowledgeable person said the pad looks good for an original stamping with a light decking, I wouldn't worry much about it.
There really is no substitute for having someone knowledgeable look at the pad in person.
FWIW: If I was looking to buy that car, I would be concerned about a lot more things than just the stamp pad. If everything else was in order, and a knowledgeable person said the pad looks good for an original stamping with a light decking, I wouldn't worry much about it.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 534
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,266
Likes: 4,355
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi L,
It looks like a nice car IN THE PHOTOS.
It's really a shame what was done to the pad when the engine was rebuilt.
Perhaps the asking price is a reflection of what the car actually is.
Regards,
Alan
What's the rust situation?
It looks like a nice car IN THE PHOTOS.
It's really a shame what was done to the pad when the engine was rebuilt.
Perhaps the asking price is a reflection of what the car actually is.
Regards,
Alan
What's the rust situation?
Last edited by Alan 71; Aug 31, 2017 at 10:13 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
new suspension, rebuilt engine, nice paint.. easily a 24K car if no rust...
rare to see a 70 big block that low a asking price. it would be sold by now if not other issues?
99K miles equates to 2100 miles a year. don't let that scare you away.
if you can't authenticate originality, then base your price that you will pay on the condition. of the car.
if your requirements are based on originality, then do your homework before you commit to playing that game.
many a rookie gets burned when playing the matching numbers game.
rare to see a 70 big block that low a asking price. it would be sold by now if not other issues?
99K miles equates to 2100 miles a year. don't let that scare you away.
if you can't authenticate originality, then base your price that you will pay on the condition. of the car.
if your requirements are based on originality, then do your homework before you commit to playing that game.
many a rookie gets burned when playing the matching numbers game.