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Old 01-20-2018, 09:29 AM   #1
ZRXGreen
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Good Morning Ladies & Gentlemen,

There is a 69 427 Roadster on eBay located here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevro...19.m1438.l2649

The 3rd picture in the ad is the engine stamp. Please share your thoughts with regards to the legitimacy of the stamping, along with any other observations you have about the car in general. One thing I noticed that I've never seen, the driver's door panel has a window crank, while the passenger side has an power window switch on the panel.

Thanks!

Last edited by ZRXGreen; 01-20-2018 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:42 AM   #2
Alan 71
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Hi z,
The photo is a pretty poor one to use a basis for a decision about the pad and stamps.

Does it appear to you as if the surface of the pad under the end of the vin derivative has had some work done to it?

Are the # of bids and the bid price an indication of what people think?
Aren't real 69 bb convertibles worth a good bit more than that?

Regards,
Alan

Last edited by Alan 71; 01-20-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:52 AM   #3
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Hi z,
The photo is a pretty poor one to use a basis for a decision about the pad and stamps.

Does it appear to you as if the surface of the pad under the end of the vin derivative has had some work done to it?

Regards,
Alan
Thanks for the response, Alan. If you click the link down in the body of his ad, it takes you to a database of his pictures, where they may be higher resolution.

I'm so new to this that I'm at great risk of embarrassing myself with any analysis, but here goes: It looks like the last 5 digits of the VIN derivative don't match the first 4 as the last 5 appear to be spaced out and sized differently. Finally, it looks like there might be some marring there on the pad itself, although I'm not sure. Apologies for my ignorance here, that's why I'm reaching out. Again, I appreciate any and all opinions.

Last edited by ZRXGreen; 01-20-2018 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:02 AM   #4
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Iíll let the experts give you advice on the stamp pad, but I can tell you that a manual window on the drivers side and what appears to be a power window on the passenger side is enough to make me walk away from this one. That would indicate to me that this is some kind of cobbled together car, and who knows what else you would find that was done to it.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:13 AM   #5
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Iíll let the experts give you advice on the stamp pad, but I can tell you that a manual window on the drivers side and what appears to be a power window on the passenger side is enough to make me walk away from this one. That would indicate to me that this is some kind of cobbled together car, and who knows what else you would find that was done to it.
Thank you. Plus, weren't all power window switches on the center console?
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:47 AM   #6
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I'm no expert - just bored, drinking coffee with a couple of books.

The 5600 redline on the tach agrees with the LL suffix on the engine stamp pad. L36 390hp. VIN says build date between Sept 68 and Jan 69. Trim tag says November 9th. Someone will probably call me out if I'm mistaken (and I would appreciate it).

Didn't see any obvious signs of rust around the VIN tag on the pillar - a few I looked in person definitely set off alarms by showing rust bleeding in around that area. It really didn't look to me like anyone fiddled with the engine stamp but it's hard to tell from one photo.

I saw a '68 that could be that car's twin this past summer at a show and it was blatantly obvious it was a Frankenstein to everyone except the guy who laid out $38K for it. At a glance it looks like the curtains match the carpet.

IMO if you are not a collector and are looking for a driver then one advantage matching #s gets you is at least you have some idea what you have. Not trying to touch off a fire here - matching #s is one of those things that goes round and round.

Yes, the electric window is goofy but not the end of the world. I like the hard top. The seller does appear to be showing a fair amount of detail underneath - many do not.

I wouldn't buy a car without inspecting it myself first. I'd go take a look at this one if I wanted to bid on it. I would not buy one sight unseen. Just me.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:54 AM   #7
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Hi Z,
Here's an example of what I believe was the type of gang holder used for the vin stamp on the engine pad.

Since the transmission was stamped at the same time, with the same gang holder, it would be interesting to see that stamp. It might shed some light on the engine pad stamp.

There were reasons pads were ground and re-stamped... but it takes some experience to sort out what might have been done at St.Louis or at some later time.

I'll repeat... aren't real bb, 69, convertibles, typically worth more than what this car has been bid to? Why?
Regards,
Alan

As you can see the 3rd character from the left isn't quite lined up.

Last edited by Alan 71; 01-20-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:07 AM   #8
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I'm no expert - just bored, drinking coffee with a couple of books.

The 5600 redline on the tach agrees with the LL suffix on the engine stamp pad. L36 390hp. VIN says build date between Sept 68 and Jan 69. Trim tag says November 9th. Someone will probably call me out if I'm mistaken (and I would appreciate it).

Didn't see any obvious signs of rust around the VIN tag on the pillar - a few I looked in person definitely set off alarms by showing rust bleeding in around that area. It really didn't look to me like anyone fiddled with the engine stamp but it's hard to tell from one photo.

I saw a '68 that could be that car's twin this past summer at a show and it was blatantly obvious it was a Frankenstein to everyone except the guy who laid out $38K for it. At a glance it looks like the curtains match the carpet.

IMO if you are not a collector and are looking for a driver then one advantage matching #s gets you is at least you have some idea what you have. Not trying to touch off a fire here - matching #s is one of those things that goes round and round.

Yes, the electric window is goofy but not the end of the world. I like the hard top. The seller does appear to be showing a fair amount of detail underneath - many do not.

I wouldn't buy a car without inspecting it myself first. I'd go take a look at this one if I wanted to bid on it. I would not buy one sight unseen. Just me.
Thanks for the response. About the hard top, I noticed that there is a greater gap where the hard top meets the body than I've seen on other cars with hard tops. Is that maybe because it isn't secured? Or is the fit and finish of the hard tops and the way they attach different on each car?
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:08 AM   #9
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do you require an absolute proven, no excuses original engine 69 big block convertible?
if so be prepared to spend close to double what this car is bid up to.

this looks to be a dealer.. his reserve will be nowhere near the 25K bid currently.

25K is a nice price for a NOM big block convertible with good paint and this car's several questionable characteristics.

what is that gizmo in front of the carb? its on 1 pic and not another?
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan 71 View Post
Hi Z,
Here's an example of what I believe was the type of gang holder used for the vin stamp on the engine pad.

Since the transmission was stamped at the same time, with the same gang holder, it would be interesting to see that stamp. It might shed some light on the engine pad stamp.

There were reasons pads were ground and re-stamped... but it takes some experience to sort out what might have been done at St.Louis or at some later time.

I'll repeat... aren't real bb, 69. convertibles worth substacially more than what this car has been bid to? Why?
Regards,
Alan

As you can see the 3rd character from the left isn't quite lined up.
Alan, when you say that a BB 69 convertible would be worth substantially more, what price range would that be? I feel like I'm getting better with the values of the 68-72 small blocks, but am definitely out of my depth with the big block cars.

Your info on the gang holder is very helpful! Great info on the fact that the trans would have been stamped with the same stamp gang. Thank you for pointing out that the one character doesn't line up. For someone like me, this is just building my knowledge base, which is exactly what I need!

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Old 01-20-2018, 11:17 AM   #11
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Auction ended at 25,301. Reserve not met. Winning an eBay auction for a pricey item like this is not a good idea. Bid to get sellers attention, then go see it after auction ends if nobody won it. And frequently just cut somebody won doesn't mean it sold, although I think you need to put a card on file with eBay once auction hits 15k.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:27 AM   #12
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do you require an absolute proven, no excuses original engine 69 big block convertible?
if so be prepared to spend close to double what this car is bid up to.

this looks to be a dealer.. his reserve will be nowhere near the 25K bid currently.

25K is a nice price for a NOM big block convertible with good paint and this car's several questionable characteristics.

what is that gizmo in front of the carb? its on 1 pic and not another?
Hi joewill,

Although I'm not looking for the perfect car, by any means (I couldn't afford it), I do want it to have the original engine. I appreciate your input--as I said, I just don't know much about big block car values.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:48 AM   #13
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Thanks for the response. About the hard top, I noticed that there is a greater gap where the hard top meets the body than I've seen on other cars with hard tops. Is that maybe because it isn't secured? Or is the fit and finish of the hard tops and the way they attach different on each car?
They attach the same but there are adjustments for fit. There are two holes on the deck lid that should have protective chrome doodad around them. There are two sockets at the top on either end of the windshield frame.

The hardtop has pointy round bayonets that drop into the holes which I believe are adjustable - screw in/out for length. There is a center front clamp on the hardtop that also has a small bayonet and matches up to a small plate in the middle/top of the windshield frame.

Mine's a convertible and it uses the same attachment method. My hardtop's in primer - and as cool as they look it's not the easiest thing to take on & off. I was thinking I'd have to come up with a pulley system to do it myself or keep bugging my neighbor.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:50 AM   #14
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Hi joewill,

Although I'm not looking for the perfect car, by any means (I couldn't afford it), I do want it to have the original engine. I appreciate your input--as I said, I just don't know much about big block car values.
Looks like joewill called it right.

Personally, I would look for a private sale. For a driver if someone produces a receipt for the crate engine the car has in it I'd be happy with that.
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:05 PM   #15
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Hi Z,
"Alan, when you say that a BB 69 convertible would be worth substantially more, what price range would that be?"

I think a non rusty, 69, real big block, convertible, with it's original motor, and no stories, and in good condition, is an easy $50,000 car.
$65,000 to $75,000 for an especially nice car with a judging history.
Regards,
Alan

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Old 01-20-2018, 12:10 PM   #16
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Thank you. Plus, weren't all power window switches on the center console?
Thatís correct.
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:32 PM   #17
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Hi Z,
"Alan, when you say that a BB 69 convertible would be worth substantially more, what price range would that be?"

I think a non rusty, 69, real big block, convertible, with it's original motor, and no stories, and in good condition, is an easy $50,000 car.
$65,000 to $75,000 for an especially nice car with a judging history.
Regards,
Alan
Much appreciated. That's one of the problems with being new to the game--it's one thing to know what the asking price for these cars is, and another to know what they actually sell for.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to calculate what the 68-72 cars actually sell for? The only thing I am aware of is sorting eBay listings by "sold."
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:46 PM   #18
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Mine's a convertible and it uses the same attachment method. My hardtop's in primer - and as cool as they look it's not the easiest thing to take on & off. I was thinking I'd have to come up with a pulley system to do it myself or keep bugging my neighbor.
Go on Craigslist. put patient lift I the search block. they are light duty cherry pickers for putting people in and out of wheelchairs. nobody buys them used, cuz if they have a legit need for one, insurance pays for it. then when the person no longer needs it, they list them for sale. usually see them from 50 to 350. I wouldn't pay more than 100. https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...458418140.html
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #19
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the patina on the stamp pad does show that the stamp is very old. but the paint on the pad shows that the engine has been painted outside of the factory.

the sanding marks on the pad have perhaps obliterated the broach marks. the fonts and depth of the character strike and character spacing would have to be further researched.

see if the stamp matches the transmission.

check the casting date code of the block, and the casting date code of all the other parts to line up with the build date of the car..

know and understand that a major subset of these cars do not have the original engine and that so many of them are faked.

a non original engine car can pass all points in engine judging and an original engine car may not pass any of the engine judging.

A good knowledgeable sleuthing of the car can almost always unravel their high end claims.

except for the super rare optioned cars, an original engine car will not appreciate any faster than a NOM car. you just have to buy in at the right price.

these cars rust and can cause the rookie who states that they want an original engine to make a major mistake.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:25 PM   #20
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the patina on the stamp pad does show that the stamp is very old. but the paint on the pad shows that the engine has been painted outside of the factory.

the sanding marks on the pad have perhaps obliterated the broach marks. the fonts and depth of the character strike and character spacing would have to be further researched.

see if the stamp matches the transmission.

check the casting date code of the block, and the casting date code of all the other parts to line up with the build date of the car..

know and understand that a major subset of these cars do not have the original engine and that so many of them are faked.

a non original engine car can pass all points in engine judging and an original engine car may not pass any of the engine judging.

A good knowledgeable sleuthing of the car can almost always unravel their high end claims.

except for the super rare optioned cars, an original engine car will not appreciate any faster than a NOM car. you just have to buy in at the right price.

these cars rust and can cause the rookie who states that they want an original engine to make a major mistake.
Thank you joewill. I'm not sure what you meant in your last line. Do you mean that badly rusted cars may be restored by unscrupulous shops, getting donor frames and VINS and that in the end the motor may not actually match? And that someone like me may not know the difference?

I guess the best thing I can say about how I'm trying to approach my future purchase is that I'm not doing it alone and that I'm not trying to rush it. I have friends and acquaintances I know that are way more knowledgeable than I'll ever be that are willing to help me figure all this out. And then of course, I have this board, which enlists the power of thousands of people who have the opportunity to help also. I'm doing the best I can!
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