brakes
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 20,065
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From: Im not allowed to tell you
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looks like my manual master did. Looks like the power one as well
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,358
Likes: 1,057
From: Virginia USA
You need to purge your brake lines, if there is 'crud' throughout the M/C. That means dumping ALL of the present brake fluid. Use baster, etc to suck out all fluid from the M/C; replace with fresh brake fluid; then bleed all brakes from caliper closest to the M/C to the one farthest away. Remember that the rear calipers have a bleeder valve on the rear AND the front of the caliper. At each bleeder, flush until all old fluid (discolored) has been removed. Check the M/C often to make sure you don't get low on fluid while bleeding the brakes.
If you want to be sure of maximizing your braking power with the manual braking system, you may want to change the brake pads. Pad material and quality can make a LOT of difference in stopping power. But, more aggressive pads means more brake "dust" on the wheels. I like a good grade of ceramic pad so there is less 'dust'; but I don't do slalom racing!!!
You can convert to power brakes, but it takes some hardware changes to do it right. Just be aware that power brakes greatly reduce the pedal effort, but there is NO IMPROVEMENT in stopping power. If pedal effort is the issue, power brakes may be the way to go for you.
If you want to be sure of maximizing your braking power with the manual braking system, you may want to change the brake pads. Pad material and quality can make a LOT of difference in stopping power. But, more aggressive pads means more brake "dust" on the wheels. I like a good grade of ceramic pad so there is less 'dust'; but I don't do slalom racing!!!
You can convert to power brakes, but it takes some hardware changes to do it right. Just be aware that power brakes greatly reduce the pedal effort, but there is NO IMPROVEMENT in stopping power. If pedal effort is the issue, power brakes may be the way to go for you.
Should be the other way around. Right Rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front. I've got manual brakes and of all the cars in my stable my Vette still stops the best out of all of them and the pedal feels strong right from the beginning of travel. Most are not used to manual brakes these days. The pedal feel is a bit different than power brakes.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,232
Likes: 1,232
From: PHX AZ
In a nutshell, I've lived that life....the no-power-brake-life, my whole 42 years of ownership....
GO GET SOFT ORGANIC PADS....THE SOFTER THE BETTER!. NO SEMI-METALLICS, NO CERAMICS.
You will be amazed at the grip difference.....
I recall they changed the pads in 73 BECAUSE of requiring power brakes.
Compliance of pad into the tiny voids in the rotors...STOPS.
down side...more wheel cleaning....
But we're talking a $25 solution here.
Unkahal
GO GET SOFT ORGANIC PADS....THE SOFTER THE BETTER!. NO SEMI-METALLICS, NO CERAMICS.
You will be amazed at the grip difference.....
I recall they changed the pads in 73 BECAUSE of requiring power brakes.
Compliance of pad into the tiny voids in the rotors...STOPS.
down side...more wheel cleaning....
But we're talking a $25 solution here.
Unkahal
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,355
Likes: 2,104
From: Loveland
There are 2 master cylinders I keep seeing as "original". The one I have is a 29969. Almost everybody else have a 5455509 D. Does anybody know the difference? I understand the manual style should be a 1 inch bore.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,113
From: Crossville TN
The GM manual tells you to 'bleed' the brakes from farthest to nearest; but this OP needs to PURGE the bad fluid out of the lines. Again, I would choose to work from nearest to farthest when purging lines. What's the difference, you ask? You say to-MA-toe and I say to-MAH-toe......
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,358
Likes: 1,057
From: Virginia USA
The GM manual tells you to 'bleed' the brakes from farthest to nearest; but this OP needs to PURGE the bad fluid out of the lines. Again, I would choose to work from nearest to farthest when purging lines. What's the difference, you ask? You say to-MA-toe and I say to-MAH-toe......
I say to-MA-toe
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,355
Likes: 2,104
From: Loveland
In my research, I think the master cylinder is a dics/drum. The rear drum side is designed to keep a bit of pressure on the 2 drum brakes. When I removed the disc brake pads from the rear, the caliper pistons tried to pop out. I had to hold the pistons in, to install the pads. I think this is a no no. Does this make sense?
Last edited by kodpkd; Jul 10, 2019 at 01:23 AM.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,358
Likes: 1,057
From: Virginia USA
In my research, I think the master cylinder is a dics/drum. The rear drum side is designed to keep a bit of pressure on the 2 drum brakes. When I removed the disc brake pads from the rear, the caliper pistons tried to pop out. I had to hold the pistons in, to install the pads. I think this is a no no. Does this make sense?
The pistons will pop out as there is a spring behind them. Make or buy the piston clips that hold the pistons in place when changing the pads. The nice part about our brake calipers is the pads can be replaced without removing them.
My piston clips:
Last edited by theandies; Jul 10, 2019 at 08:11 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 253
From: Catlett VA
I'm old enough to have owned ten vehicles with manual (non-power) brakes, including the 68 big block convert I have now. You do have to press harder on the pedal, but if the system is working properly, moderate pressure should stop the car. Before anti-lock brake systems were available, manual brakes were preferred by good drivers so they could better control lock-up and avoid panic stops going out of control. Can you lock up the brakes and make the tires squeal? If not, then do some of the things suggested by others posting here.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
In a nutshell, I've lived that life....the no-power-brake-life, my whole 42 years of ownership....
GO GET SOFT ORGANIC PADS....THE SOFTER THE BETTER!. NO SEMI-METALLICS, NO CERAMICS.
You will be amazed at the grip difference.....
I recall they changed the pads in 73 BECAUSE of requiring power brakes.
Compliance of pad into the tiny voids in the rotors...STOPS.
down side...more wheel cleaning....
But we're talking a $25 solution here.
Unkahal
GO GET SOFT ORGANIC PADS....THE SOFTER THE BETTER!. NO SEMI-METALLICS, NO CERAMICS.
You will be amazed at the grip difference.....
I recall they changed the pads in 73 BECAUSE of requiring power brakes.
Compliance of pad into the tiny voids in the rotors...STOPS.
down side...more wheel cleaning....
But we're talking a $25 solution here.
Unkahal
I'm always up for testing more brake pads.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,113
From: Crossville TN
Advice (take it or not): When you are changing pads and bleeding the brake system, it is BEST to relieve pressure by cracking the bleeder valve at the caliper where you are working. Some folks like to push the caliper pistons back into the calipers to make room for new pad thickness change. BUT, doing so just puts old fluid, which is likely contaminated with some water, back into the system. Instead, crack the bleeder valve and push that fluid into a 'waste fluid' can or bottle, then close the bleeder and insert the new pads. Doing it this way gets rid of 'old/nasty' brake fluid and is is much easier to drain from right at the caliper. Start near the M/C and work back to the farthest from the M/C (or do it the other way, if you must). One pass to all wheels and you're done!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,355
Likes: 2,104
From: Loveland
I'm old enough to have owned ten vehicles with manual (non-power) brakes, including the 68 big block convert I have now. You do have to press harder on the pedal, but if the system is working properly, moderate pressure should stop the car. Before anti-lock brake systems were available, manual brakes were preferred by good drivers so they could better control lock-up and avoid panic stops going out of control. Can you lock up the brakes and make the tires squeal? If not, then do some of the things suggested by others posting here.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
Are you sure that all the brakes are working?
On an old car that you just got, that should not be taken for granted.
Once you are sure that the calipers are working, put new HIGH PERFORMANCE pads in it.
On an old car that you just got, that should not be taken for granted.
Once you are sure that the calipers are working, put new HIGH PERFORMANCE pads in it.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 1,567
From: los altos hills california
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 20,065
Likes: 9,181
From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
if yo cant lock up the tires on a car that doesnt have antilock brakes, you need to fix them....
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
Put new ones in the back, then do a braking test. If they lock up before the fronts, they have more bite that what you have been running.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,355
Likes: 2,104
From: Loveland
I took the master cylinder off. I measured the bore, it isn't 1 inch. Either 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 inch. A new master is on order, along with another proportioning valve. My pedal is firm,,,, I'm sure bleeding the H out of them isn't going to help make it stop better. I have felt the discs after driving, they are all about the same temp.
What I don't understand. The C3 came with disc/disc, disc in the front and rear. Why are so many masters cylinders for the corvette showing disc/drum?
What I don't understand. The C3 came with disc/disc, disc in the front and rear. Why are so many masters cylinders for the corvette showing disc/drum?
Last edited by kodpkd; Jul 14, 2019 at 06:41 PM.