Curious about John Deloreans role in the C-3 inception. Some say he did nothing, while others like myself, look at the Pontiac Banshee and cant deny the similarities. Seems like John doesn't get the credit he deserves. The Banshee was two years before the first C-3 in 68. From what I understand, GM shelved his idea until a year after he left Pontiac and poof...The C-3 is born. Larry Shinoda seems to get all the design credit from the Mako Shark inception. I know I am not doing this history lesson justice, and hope someone here can explain what role if any John Delorean had with the C-3s.

 

GD,
Hard to say, specifically unless you spoke with John. It's obvious there is some influence here but I think there was probably much bleed over amongst the GM designers. None of them were working in a sealed box, and they were probably all pals, rather tham competitors so a little "lyric borrowing" here and there was not uncommon.
Greg

 

From Wikipedia

So according to this, the banshee *became* the '68 corvette.

 

Would be a good argument

 

https://www.conceptcarz.com/z18384/p...e-concept.aspx

 

I don't believe the Banshee I really had much, or any effect on the design of the 68 Corvette.

The Banshee I was being designed and developed by Pontiac, at the same time Chevrolet was developing the Mako Shark II. Both cars were moving through GM Design at the same time in 1964, and simply reflect the long nose, short deck, and "Coke" bottle side profile, that was so popular at GM Design during that time period. According to the lead engineer of the Banshee I (who also eventually bought the car from GM), the Banshee's design was actually based on a Chevrolet, the 1962 Corvair Monza GT concept car.

If the Banshee influenced the design of any GM car, it was the 68 Opel GT. The 68 Corvette was more than a foot longer than the Banshee, and about 500 pounds heavier, while the Opel GT was dimensionally almost identical to the Banshee, and shared the same oval headlight doors, bulge in the hood, and overall basic design.

Monza GT
https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-..._Monza_GT.html

Mako Shark II along with Mako Shark I
https://gmphotostore.com/1960s-chevr...t-cars-poster/

 

 

This would be the same John Delorean who agreed to work for Malcolm Bricklin on the Bricklin SV1 and decided against it at the last minute, then went on to produce the Delorean with the “original” idea of gull wing doors, years after the Bricklin’s.

 

Dear Gold... John had nothing to do with the C-3. Infact the Banshee (which I have actually sat in!) was a bals-faced attempt to steal some of Chevy's thunder. His concept was really brought to fruition with the Camaro Firebird of 1967....Whereas Poncho could generate sales off of Chevy's tooling (some of it). the Mako 1 came out in 65...John knew a good thing when he saw it and was a USURPER. He merely crammed out a prototype AFTER the Mako made the scene. He stuck a SPRINT 6 in it so that the GM management would not be riled at the product grab....slotting in BELOW the Corvette.....the trick didn't work!

The guys that had the most to do with the C-3 were;
Henry Haga
David Holls
John Schinella
Larry Schinoda
And of Course Bill Mitchell.

There were dozens of less known guys who contributed to gills, and taillights and door flappers, and hood bulges as individual contributors.

Frankly, I think Johnny Z. gets more credit than he deserves. Jim Wangers came up with the GTO for crissake...Johnny was a PLAYBOY ENGINEER.

Cheers Unkahal

 

Wow..Had no idea John worked on the Bricklin's..Clearly you can see that influence in his later cars. Plagiarism..? Perhaps, maybe its like Greg mentioned. Back in the day, they were all doing it. Would be hard to protect a good idea under these conditions.
Now I learn Delorean didn't even design the GTO. Good to know. Seems the GM history runs deep with these cars, Lots to know, lots of misinformation out there. My hope was to start a thread that would help me, as well as other Corvette enthusiast understand the history behind our cars.
Without a doubt Opal played a role in the history of the Vette. But how much? My understanding is that when the idea of a sports car project was given the green light by GM, it was called project Opal before it was given the name Corvette. Were they trying to revive the anemic Opal brand at the time?

 

Okay Buddy....I was the President of the OPEL GT Club of New England, being the founder of that. (note spelling)

Henry Haga and David Holls BOTH worked on the GT. Infact if you look at the C-3 PATENT DRAWINGS Davids name is on it.

OPEL WAS a division of GM from the early 50's.... Based out of Russelheim DE. The company was called ADAM OPEL AG.
OPEL was a training ground for GM North America...many SUPER FAMOUS guys 'graduated' from OPEL to become well known later...Incl the head Designer at PORSCHE, Tony Lapine.

The Opel Gt came out in 67, predating the C-3 by some months....Of Course BOTH cars trace back to MAKO 1./ Monza GT

In order to throw off the competition in 1950 or so, The funny little fiberglas 'sports-car' had a 'BLACK NAME'..they called it PROJECT OPEL.....

The Opel GT was a TERRIFIC car...I had 7 of them....three things 'killed' the Opel GT;
1. Crash worthiness for 1974 (last year for the GT was '73')
2. The Datsun 240Z....which was a couple hundred dollars more, but had a 6 cylinder.
3. Passing the car to BUICK...who to this day, hasn't a CLUE how to market a sports-car.

As to your 'anemic comment' YES, TRUE! the Opel GT was available with a 1.1L engine and a automatic....which allowed bird strikes in the tail!
My 1.9 litre 4 speed car was quite spritely, in the 8.0 second category 0-60 and REGULARLY returned 30+ mpg.

As far as Delorean... he was arguably a 'mover and a shaker'...being nice... a catalyst....The guy who was REALLY responsible for the DMC-12 was BUD COLLINS...mechancal and chassis engineer....the DMC-12's equivalent of Zora.

I went out with Bud's Daughter Jenny......{Jenny! can I have my Skiis back, it's been 45 years? Any time now!} lol

unkahal

 

Here's a tidbit: Zora Duntov did not design the Corvette. As an automotive engineer, he worked to improve what GM gave him to work with.

 

Thank you L-46 man.... Sorry for the Faux pas. Have no problems with the OPEL brand. The old man brought home a GT in 72. it was the metalic green with saddle interior. Neat little car, but at the time I remember thinking not a Corvette but trying hard to look like one.

 

Absolutely Correct... Zora came on after the 1953-55 was declared a 'bald-***-dog'. David Holls/ Claire McKitchan did the chassis layout for the C-1.
Zora saved it from EXTINCTION!

Delorean/ Bud Collins (a poncho senior engineer) and Jim Wangers could ALL be declared the father of the GTO.

As BUD Said to me...Personally, first person...."It was me who said we could stick a bigger engine into the little rope-drive Tempest, after a eng. compt. Measuring session." So My vote is with BUD!
Sleazy Johnny merely tried to slide it past management....which he did! (this is some years before he started selling drugs....so he had practice!)
There were very strict rules about engine power displacement and where the car was in GM's pecking order.....these rules remain to this DAY!

Great Thread.

Unkahal

 

We all understand that Zora helped make the Corvette the Great American Sports car that we love. But what exactly was his role at Corvette. Seems he was not a design guy, but a performance guy. What was Zora's background pre GM and how did he get started consulting for Chevrolet?

 

Zora was a Belgian Born Mechanical engineer. He had a VERY THICK accent all his life.
He was 'famous' before Chevrolet for designing the ARDUN head....named after Him ARkus DUNtov. He was a racer in his youth.
In 1955 he joined Chevy to work on engines/cams and to contribute to the SBC.

He was a pure old school mechanical engineer....

 

Duntov was born in Belgian, but grew up in Germany and Russia. He was of Jewish decent, and was lucky to escape the ****'s, and moved to the US, shortly before the outbreak of war. He and his brother (Yurah?) developed the aluminum Ardun hemi heads for the Ford flathead V8, which increased the flathead's horsepower from about 90, to as much as 300! He started at GM as an engineer, and later became the Corvette Chief Engineer.

Duntov was quite an accomplished racer. Before coming to GM, he worked as an engineer for Allard, and raced Allards at LeMans. While working for GM in 53, he raced a factory backed Allard at Le Mans, and in 54 and 55, while still working for GM, he won his class at Le Mans driving for the Porsche factory team! He had also made a couple attempts at the Indy 500, in the late 40's.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allard

Cool looking cars. I had heard of Allard, but guess I had never seen one.

 

off topic. Look up;

Lister
Cunningham
Devin
Kaiser-Darrin
Arnholt Bristol
Bristol

as historical reference.

cheers ! Unka

 

Wanted to find some info on Bill Mitchell. The info I found, GOOGLE tells me Bill was an artist. He was working as an illustrator for the Automobile Racing Club of America when Harley Earl approached him to work for GM. I know this is a long shot....but has anybody seen any of Bill Mitchell's work as an illustrator BEFORE he worked for GM. Would be cool to check out his early design style.