Hi All,
As some of you are aware, I'm based in Australia and looking to buy a '69 small block automatic coupe from the USA.
There have been a number of false starts but I've learned a lot on the journey, so not all bad.

I've now come across a car that I probably wouldn't have considered when I started looking a couple months ago, but I've learned that the top priorities with these cars is frame, frame and frame, with everything else a secondary concern. The car in question has a pretty much spotless frame with one exception, which I present below for your comments:



As you can see, there's been some fun and games had on the RHS of this plate (not even sure what it's called), with some questionable welding and a jagged hole.

I managed to track down one of the previous owners who remembers the repair and said there was a crack developing and a friend welded it up for him.
I believe what he says in general and don't suspect it was a rust related issue because the rest of the frame (rails, kick-ups, cross members, etc.) looks very clean and relatively untouched.
This has been a SoCal car most of its life with a stint in Oregon.

My questions are:
- is this a common problem?
- is it a big deal?
- could it be relatively easily fixed in a better way than it is now? (without major dismantling of the car)
- could a complete replacement part be cheaply/easily sourced and how hard would it be to do the job?

Cheers,
Brian

 

The lower control arm mounts where plug welded to the crossmember through slotted holes on the inside of the channel mounts, underneath the dogbone looking pieces. It is apparently functional from an engineering standpoint, as that is how they did it on all the C3 Corvettes., and I don't know if it is common or not. IF those welds came loose, maybe this previous owner had his welder just weld it up as in the picture. It probably is fine, if the welding is done properly. If its not good welding, grind it out and reweld. I think the "hole" you see is just a place where he did not weld.

The dents in the crossmember seem to be the obligatory dents caused by improperly jacking the car from this point. Its very thin metal, and only take one mistake.

 

Thanks for the comments. Is this car you would pass over as a potential purchase because of what's been done here, or if everything else was good would you still consider it?

Cheers,
Brian

 

First,.....I am the wrong person to ask, and not because I lack technical knowledge and experience, because I do. I differ from many on this forum when it comes to buying a C3 Corvette. If you saw the 69 project I just bought, you would know why. It would scare most people. But for me, its a gem and a great find at a great price, one that I will bring back to life. And yes,.....it will cost more than I could sell it for when done.

In my opinion, the "dream" Corvette most suggest you find does not exist, even if you are spending big bucks. These are all 40-50 year old cars, most of them mistreated or neglected. So, this fantasy find of a rust free, mechanically perfect, C3 Corvette for $20,000 is nothing but fantasy. The fact is that everything can be repaired, and most of the time it will cost more than it is worth as for "resale". Secondly, even the cars that appear to be in perfect condition can have massive rust issues in the windshield frame, pillars, rocker channels and frame. These "Corvette dealerships" are filled with beautiful looking cars at twice the price than average.....and buried underneath is still a rusty, mechanical poor car. So you can spend big bucks......and still have to fix all the problems. IF there is truly a rust free, great condition chrome bumper car,......it would be priced out of most peoples budget, and I doubt the car exists. Don't be fooled.

So,....to answer your question......this small weld issues is totally irrelevant and would not stop me for a minute if the rest of the car is good. And I do understand that if you are not a mechanically inclined person that you want to find a very good car. I will say that you should consider the fact that these cars WILL require maintenance, and WILL not operate like a modern car, without attention to details. I did a five year body off restoration on my 77, and essentially it is a brand new 77 Corvette. There is not a single part of the car that is not restored, rebuilt or replaced. Its better than GM built it. It cost way more money than I could ever sell it for, but still less than a 2020 Corvette But, I now have a beautiful and fun machine to own and drive, and I do. That is why I did it. I could NEVER have found a car as good as my car is now without doing what I did, because that car does not exist unless I were to find a car someone else rebuilt to my standards.

Just a different perspective to consider.

 

@AllVettes4Me What do you think David? Maybe David (the C3 Frameologist) will have an opinion.

If the rest of the car looks good and the front end alignment isn't affected, it wouldn't bother me. One of David's special designed skid plates would look added to that frame.

 

There's not supposed to be any hole there that's that big . Maybe he blew the hole out with his cockatoo cage sh*t welding !
Another scenario is the car skidded into something (curb ?) and partially tore off the bottom A arm mount .

Can you get any other pics that show the other side of the mount and of both Bottom A arms . In your pic they both look to be the same vintage but if one is newer then that would possible mean accident damage replacement.

 

Hey Bazza, car is at a dealer in Oregon and took a fair bit of coaxing to even get those pics.

I've managed to track down the previous owner who had the car when this repair was made, he claims the initial cracking may have started after the car was hit in the front at some stage of its life. Apparently he drove it for several years after the repairs with no further issues.

That's pretty much all I have to go on.

Cheers,
Brian

 

Hi Brian,

looked at the pic you posted of the welded area on that car and it reminded me of a technical note on the Wilcox Corvette site describing frame damage. I attached the pic for you.

its confirmation that the car has been hit at some time. Those old stick welds look pretty amateurish by today’s standards. Buyer beware

 

Thanks Ken. A previous owner has told me the car had been hit in the front sometime before he bought it and acknowledged it was likely the cause of the cracking in that cross member.
I have a friend who could probably do a better job on those welds if they need to be redone.

The question now is if this car as it sits with a rust free frame and some accident repair is a better bet than a no-hit car that's not as clean in the frame?

Cheers,
Brian

 

PM received. I am reviewing the pictures now and will reply to the PM shortly.
Thank you for trusting me to have a look.
Best regards,
David
AllVettes4Me

 

Many thanks, David.
I know the pictures are not as detailed or complete as you or I would want, but whatever comments you can make based on what we have are much appreciated.

Cheers,
Brian

 

This is the front cross member plate that is welded to the frame. As mentioned by others it is fairly thin and is manufactured as a single piece. You can buy this part from Paragon Corvette Reproductions as part number 5813. It retails for $175.00 US. You can also purchase the lower gusset kit that welds to the lower front cross member plate. That kit is also available from Paragon Corvette as part number 13638K Lower A-Arm support kit. You would need two of these kits and they cost $105.00 US each.

If you do not want to remove the current cross member plate then I would suggest a good repair of the current plate cover would be in order. Again, if you knew how thin this piece of metal is you would be surprised that GM didn't beef it up at some point, but they did not.

My first attempt at a cross member support plate was made by cutting one of these thin plates down to fit between the lower gussets and bolt it in place. That is when I realized how thin the metal was and the cover plate I made also dented like you would see on the bottom of most cars that jacked up at that spot. That is why I developed the 1/8" steel stock plate that was shown in another picture.

I think it can be repaired and if the rest of the car is as nice as the frame appears to be it looks to be a nice candidate for restoration.

Best regards,

David Howard
AllVettes4Me

 

Thank you David for your comments here and in the PM you sent. They are much appreciated!

Cheers,
Brian

 

These are the lower gusset repair pieces should you wish to purchase and repair that part of the lower control arm plate. I have not removed these on any of the frames I have owned. These are welded to the plate shown previously. If you removed the plate front the lower cross member then you could have better access to repair the torn cross member plate and maybe install a new lower gusset that isn't dented or damaged. Just a thought.
Good luck wtih your decision.
David

 

I agree with David. The spot shown is a small area. Thus it is relatively easier to fix a small spot than if the entire frame had rust issues.
Plus this you could actually drive it as-is for a while and fix it on your timetable.

Mine had been hit also. Uppercut on the drivers front. Was about one inch too high. Frame shop straightened it right out for a few hundred $. Almost Perfect now except for the "floor jack dents".

Anything is repairable. It is just less expensive if you confine it to a smaller area.

 

My 76 is a rust free frame and birdcage car but, after I bought it and started bringing it back from the dead I discovered the lower control arm mounts had been just about torn off the car at some point. I was doing a frame-off anyway so I was able to repair them while the body was off. I was amazed at how poor the factory welds were that were supposed to hold them on-these things must have been hanging on by a thread from the factory! Anyway I beefed up the lower mounts significantly while I was there. I understand it was relatively easy for me with the body off, I guess my point is this area seems to be a weak point on C3's, if that makes you feel any better.