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I have a '72 LS5 Coupe and would like to upgrade the steering so it has a more positive feel. Would appreciate any input as to what is a good way to go with this.
PS or MS?
What is the mileage and condition of all the front suspension parts?
I would start by making sure everything is up to factory spec:
Bushings, tie rod ends, idler arm, steering rag joint, steering box looseness and alignment.
(The steering boxes in particular wear internally, frequently get overlooked and can be really loose sometimes) Ditto for the idler arm.
If that is not sufficient, there are a number of mods you can make. It is after all a 1963 design.
Mods: 5-6 degrees caster, poly bushings, wider wheels & tires. Then a borgeson box or Rack n pinion.
It all depends on how far you want to go with mods.
With all new suspension components, the (properly converted) manual steering on my 80 is amazing. If you go this route, have @GTR1999 rebuild your steering box (good advice even if you keep the stock power steering). My steering arms do not have the outer holes that yours do, and I have SPC upper control arms to dial in extra caster. Driving is awesome, parking, not so much.
My wife's 79 got a Borgeson conversion. It absolutely transformed the car, and she loves it. It is her fair-weather daily driver. You can steer with one finger, and no leaks.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
I would rebuild your steering box or adjust the lash adjustment screw for less slop and make sure the tie rod ends are in the hole closest to the pivot of the front spindle if it has 2 holes. That would tighten up the ratio
I personally would check everything for play but not necessarily spend a lot of time and money to rebuild it all if your goals are more for a modern steering feel otherwise you may end up just pulling a lot of it out and replacing it again like this guy. I am considering the borgeson upgrade myself.
Unfortunately that guy played with the original box, that most likely needs attention after almost 50 years. I would bet lunch a correctly built box would have made a huge difference in that car and the extra money could have been used elsewhere. Nice looking shop to build up though
I can back up Gary,s comment. After he rebuilt my steering box, installed on my 77 with manual non-power steering, there is essentially zero free play. Move the steering wheel and the car moves with it. Perfect. I don,t need power steering nor do I need Borgeson.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Jun 10, 2021 at 12:30 PM.
I have a stock system; I've rebuilt all the P/S stuff and the steering links are solid. The grease steering box has been replaced with good quality synthetic grease and it has been adjusted to optimum (for the age it has). My steering is plenty tight and has NO slop. Anyone who says that the C3 stock steering system isn't very good has never driven one that is in good condition and set up properly.
P.S. Just replacing ONE member of the steering system with any "whiz-bang" gizmo is unlikely to yield success. Check your steering system thoroughly (or go to a good alignment shop for their input on it), correct any significant issues (you don't have to replace parts just because they are "old"), identify the weak-links in your system, and address them as necessary to optimize your steering. Then, if that doesn't yield the results you want, go spend $$$ on a new steering system.
So theres no benefit to a borgeson design steering box? I would think not having to have a collection system on my garage floor to catch the fluid leaking from the new replacement components would be enough for many c3 owners.
Anyone whos actually done the conversion feel its not a worthwhile upgrade? I dont have play in my steering but id be lying if I said the steering didnt feel like it could use improvement. I also know the borgeson isnt going to transform the steering into the rack and pinion feel I had in my old 84 Z51.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Jun 10, 2021 at 02:45 PM.
So theres no benefit to a borgeson design steering box? I would think not having to have a collection system on my garage floor to catch the fluid leaking from the new replacement components would be enough for many c3 owners.
Anyone whos actually done the conversion feel its not a worthwhile upgrade? I dont have play in my steering but id be lying if I said the steering didnt feel like it could use improvement. I also know the borgeson isnt going to transform the steering into the rack and pinion feel I had in my old 84 Z51.
I've done the Borgeson conversion on my '69, and I feel it was well worth it. First of all , less weight.....no more steering cylinder to go bad. Then there's the 12 to 1 ratio......more responsive, like a newer car. There was nothing wrong with my old stock system, it worked very well and was in good condition. I just wanted less weight and better response..........got them both.
Last edited by C3 Stroker; Jun 10, 2021 at 03:35 PM.
less weight than OEM PS, but more weight than OEM manual
no more leaks
new rebuilt box
no ram cylinder hanging down
My understanding though is that the assist is very strong and requires only one finger pressure. I am currently investigating how to alter that. Lowering the pump pressure is one way.
All the rack-n-pinion adaptions I have seen have the rack mounted under the crossmember and very low to the ground. Not for me.
I will never understand why people resist factory stock manual steering. Eliminates all power steering pumps, fluids belts, leaks, valves, etc.......and is so simple and tight. I guess its just too old school. It has such great road feel. And virtually unnoticeable going down the road in terms of wheel effort. Parking lots are harder.....but by no means "too much".
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Jun 10, 2021 at 08:45 PM.
I will never understand why people resist factory stock manual steering. Eliminates all power steering pumps, fluids belts, leaks, valves, etc.......and is so simple and tight. I guess its just too old school. It has such great road feel. And virtually unnoticeable going down the road in terms of wheel effort. Parking lots are harder.....but by no means "too much".
I didn't resist! I love manual steering! Simplicity is the key to enjoying my car. And my first car was a truck, so I've been backing into parking spaces since I learned to drive.
My wife loves her modern-car feel Borgeson conversion, too. There are threads on how to reduce the flow and/or pressure, to dial in the feel you want. With 7 degrees of caster, you just might want to leave it alone.
It is unlikely to find anyone who laid out over $1K for a Borgeson box to state that it "wasn't worth the money and effort". They may honestly feel that way....but if they didn't, would they say so???
It is unlikely to find anyone who laid out over $1K for a Borgeson box to state that it "wasn't worth the money and effort". They may honestly feel that way....but if they didn't, would they say so???
The borgeson box is $438.. the whole kit is under 700. Point made though. Likewise could be said for someone who paid out money to have their stock steering rebuilt too. Then again maybe not. My Uncle is having his power steering redone again For the 2nd time in 6 years and under 3000 miles.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Jun 11, 2021 at 01:36 PM.
Replaced the OEM with a Flaming River Manual Rack and Pinion
- Great feel- no play
- No fluid to leak- hoses-pumps- pulley- belt
- The cradle definitely stiffens up the front
Then added electric power steering-
- Parking is super easy- even going with a smaller steering wheel
- at speed there is no power assist
- Three wire hook up with a small control box
Replaced the OEM with a Flaming River Manual Rack and Pinion
- Great feel- no play
- No fluid to leak- hoses-pumps- pulley- belt
- The cradle definitely stiffens up the front
Then added electric power steering-
- Parking is super easy- even going with a smaller steering wheel
- at speed there is no power assist
- Three wire hook up with a small control box
Richard,
Does your electric steering mount on the column up under the dash or is it one that mounts in the engine compartment?
I looked at several rack and pinion steering systems and found they were a no go with a big block car because of interference issues with the rack and the oil pan.
A couple companies would not guarantee fit, so do a bunch of research before you purchase.
I would still like to go rack and pinion steering with the electric assist because I feel it is superior to the oem and Borgeson box.
I guess I will do some new research as it has been over five years since I checked into it.
I ended up going with the Borgeson Steering upgrade which is still in the box, on the shelf, waiting for my complete restomod.
If Someone has designed a new electric steer rack and pinion, I’ll be selling my Borgeson and switching my plans.
C3 Steering Upgrade - your thoughts
