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Old Feb 24, 2024 | 05:22 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Rescue Rogers
. … but I am using the tall truck K&N filter for more surface area and it has a bypass in the filter if the pressure differential is too great.
That’s exactly why I switched to the AC Delco model I noted: it has a bypass valve AND it’s also taller than the stock AC Delco filter.
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Old Feb 25, 2024 | 02:08 PM
  #102  
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Got small airport near you? I'll bet you could take it to a repair facility there and they would cut it open for you.
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Old Feb 25, 2024 | 07:17 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by sschultz2929
I was going to ask the best way to cut it open. I realize a hacksaw or Sawzall would do it but I’m asking about the best way. I’m thinking the best approach would be to cut around the body just adjacent to the crimp where the body meets the base of the filter. I think if I do that, I should be able to slide the body (case) off, leaving the filter element effectively intact. I do not want to buy a filter cutter for this (probably/hopefully) one-time use.

Of course I would ignore any shavings I create during the cutting.

I’d gladly listen to any better (easier) ideas.

Thoughts? Pictures?
That's exactly where a filter cutter does it. An old fashioned can opener works. Tin snips. Utility knife if the canister is thin enough.
Or a filter cutter is about $50 at Summit. Then you can add another step to all your oil changes.
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Old Feb 25, 2024 | 07:39 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by drwet
That's exactly where a filter cutter does it. An old fashioned can opener works. Tin snips. Utility knife if the canister is thin enough.
Or a filter cutter is about $50 at Summit. Then you can add another step to all your oil changes.
I thought about tin snips after I made my earlier post. That’s probably what I’ll use … or I’ll swing by a small municipal airport near me.
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Old Feb 25, 2024 | 08:17 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by sschultz2929
I thought about tin snips after I made my earlier post. That’s probably what I’ll use … or I’ll swing by a small municipal airport near me.
Do the airport - you'll make new friends!
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Old Feb 26, 2024 | 07:53 AM
  #106  
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I purchased the cheap Jegs filter opener a couple years ago which is on sale right now for $34.00 and it works great. You don't have to use it just once. although not necessary I cut my filter open after every oil change just make sure there ain't nuthin in there that ain't supposed to be.
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Old Feb 26, 2024 | 07:54 PM
  #107  
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Default Oil filter surgery and warm engine oil pressure readings

Well, it wasn't easy but I got the old Purolator filter open. I first started about a 2" incision with a hacksaw because my tin snips could not cut through the outer lip of the filter because it was just too thick; that thing was REALLY put together, I'll tell you that! Anyway, I then used a screwdriver to widen the 2" incision enough to get my tin snips in and then I nibbled my way around.

I'm attaching photos. At first blush, I didn't see anything. The filter's element did not appear to be clogged but there was definitely still some oil between the element and the case (the "dirty" side of the filter). I looked intently at the element but really couldn't detect any shiny bits.


I don't see anything here...


Again, nothing obvious here...


If you are able to zoom the photo at all and if you look closely at the side opposite my thumb, you might see some glitter on the outer rim of the element's housing, roughly where the oil is sort of puddling on the rim


Definitely glitter here; what you see here was from the small amount of oil that was still trapped in the filter housing on the 'dirty' side of the element. I had the cut-open casing lying upside down on the catch pan while I was looking intently at the element itself and (mostly) seeing nothing.


I stated 'cold engine' oil pressure readings the other day. Here are the warm engine oil pressure readings (engine up to operating temperature):
About 55 pounds of oil pressure at 1000RPMs
About 60 pounds of oil pressure at 1500RPMs
About 72 pounds of oil pressure at 2000RPMs
To reiterate, those numbers are with 10W-30 oil here in North Carolina (where the car lives) and the ambient temperature today, for what it's worth, was 68 degrees.

I've got an oil analysis test kit coming from Blackstone Labs and I will send off some of the oil from this recent oil change to have it analyzed.

At this point, I'm at a bit of a crossroads because of the seemingly contradictory evidence that's been uncovered along the way.
  • Has there been some wear? Well, based on the visual evidence, I'd be naïve if I said "no". I don't know when the PO had the engine build done but I've owned the car now for over 3 years. FWIW, it's driven very rarely -- only 1800 miles in all that time.
  • Is there enough wear to warrant real concern? To me, this is the real question and, honestly, my answer is, "I can't say for certain" -- mainly because this is really where the "contradictory evidence" comes into play. Given the healthy oil pressures above and the smooth running nature of the engine, along with a lack of any sort of clattering/knocking/rattling, I'm leaning towards "not enough wear to lose sleep over".
    • Of course, I have not dropped the oil pan and, consequently, I've not checked any clearances with Plastigage. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, but if the clearances were excessive, the oil pump would not be able to produce the oil pressure levels that are showing, right?
My immediate next steps
  • Despite having a hydraulic roller cam and hydraulic lifters, I still plan to add some ZDDP to the oil. As another one of you said, "While it's not necessary to add zinc since it's not a flat tappet system, it can't hurt". And that's my opinion, too.
  • I'm going to use a brass tee fitting and plumb in the over-the-counter oil pressure gauge I used for my earlier testing and mount it under the hood somewhere (location TBD). Then I'll have 2 gauges to compare at all times.
  • Once I have the ZDDP added, I plan to again pull the valve covers and set up some temporary cardboard 'shields' (to prevent oil splatter from the rocker arms getting all over the engine) and then let the engine idle. This way, I can get a real feel for how much oil is truly getting to the top end and if it's coming out in all the right places.
  • Send the oil sample off to Blackstone Labs for analysis.
I'll tell you this: this entire experience is monopolizing my every thought

Last edited by sschultz2929; Mar 1, 2024 at 11:30 AM. Reason: corrected the weight of the oil
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Old Feb 26, 2024 | 09:02 PM
  #108  
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I use WIX or NAPA filters, I cut them all open and I've never seen pleats look like that, they are always straight. I also open the filters from my other cars. The hack saw might have introduced metal flecks inside the filter. Take a sharp utility knife and run it along both edge of the filter media and gently pull it out. Fold up a bunch of paper towels and set the media on them, arrange it to stand on edge. In a few days most of the oil will drain out of the media and you can get a good look at what it has caught.
Get yourself a magnetic drain plug and install it, put some miles on the car and change the oil again, check the filter and magnetic plug...That will tell the story concerning metal...
This is how I open my filters, wear heavy gloves...

Good luck.
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Old Feb 26, 2024 | 09:20 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by 1860army
I use WIX or NAPA filters, I cut them all open and I've never seen pleats look like that, they are always straight. I also open the filters from my other cars. The hack saw might have introduced metal flecks inside the filter. Take a sharp utility knife and run it along both edge of the filter media and gently pull it out. Fold up a bunch of paper towels and set the media on them, arrange it to stand on edge. In a few days most of the oil will drain out of the media and you can get a good look at what it has caught.
Get yourself a magnetic drain plug and install it, put some miles on the car and change the oil again, check the filter and magnetic plug...That will tell the story concerning metal...
This is how I open my filters, wear heavy gloves...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePC6G9BRprE

Good luck.
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That video is precisely how I tried to open mine but I could not get that first cut started (maybe I need some bigger tin snips).

As for the pleats, I was kind of surprised, too, at how irregular they were. I'll take your suggestion about cutting out the media so that I can stretch it out and let it further drain.
As for my hacksaw introducing metal bits, I don't deny that one bit. However, those were all silver (aluminum) and they were all localized to one little area and I ignored those. It was the brass ones that I was focusing on.

Off to the garage to try to cut the filter media free from its cage...
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 12:27 PM
  #110  
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Like already said, I'd get a decent oil pressure gauge, as see where the oil pressure with a deadacated oil gauge, if you have 10 PSI at idle ( 600-700 Rpm ) you have pleanty of oil pressure, and if your going to replace your oil pump, there is no "High Pressure Pump" there is a higher volumne pump, which once the engine is running and that oil gets squezzed into the oil gallaries, lifters and jounnels you wind up with higher oil pressure, I got a higher volumne pump when I rebuilt the SBC in my 1990 Pickup 14 years ago and at idle cold it is pegged at 60 PSI and once warmmed up it sits at 25-30 PSI no matter how hot the ambient temperure is.
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 12:56 PM
  #111  
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OP, if you want ZDDP Oil, just go down to Reilly Auto and order 5 or 6 quarts of Valvoline VR-1.
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 05:45 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by F4Gary
OP, if you want ZDDP Oil, just go down to Reilly Auto and order 5 or 6 quarts of Valvoline VR-1.
Yep, I’m aware but thanks!
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 06:19 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by killain
Like already said, I'd get a decent oil pressure gauge, as see where the oil pressure with a deadacated oil gauge, if you have 10 PSI at idle ( 600-700 Rpm ) you have pleanty of oil pressure, and if your going to replace your oil pump, there is no "High Pressure Pump" there is a higher volumne pump, which once the engine is running and that oil gets squezzed into the oil gallaries, lifters and jounnels you wind up with higher oil pressure, I got a higher volumne pump when I rebuilt the SBC in my 1990 Pickup 14 years ago and at idle cold it is pegged at 60 PSI and once warmmed up it sits at 25-30 PSI no matter how hot the ambient temperure is.
I must respectfully disagree. There are standard and high volume pumps, yes. There are also high pressure pumps. Pressure is a function of the bypass spring. It has nothing to do with whether the pump is standard or high volume. Melling also sells a whole range of springs to allow you to select the pressure you want.
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 08:17 PM
  #114  
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Smoky Yunick used to say 10 psi per 1000 rpm.
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 10:29 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by sschultz2929
I’m not trying to prove you wrong. Trust me, I doubt that it’s plugged, too, for all the same reasons you stated. I was merely asking you what YOUR guess as to what the issue is/was.

I’m still at a loss at this time to come up with anything else EXCEPT for maybe a passage in the block that narrowed and narrowed over time (like an artery in the human body) and eventually closed off completely — specifically, the passage that serves as a path to the oil pressure gauge port. But then that blockage magically and inexplicably disappeared — coincidental with a complete oil and filter change — and now oil is flowing normally again to the oil pressure gauge port.

I don’t have a schematic/diagram of all the oil passages in a 1973 350 small block so I don’t know if this passage to the oil pressure gauge is a direct and dedicated passage or if it’s just some tributary/branch of other passages. I’m guessing that it’s just a branch off of some other passages but that’s purely a guess.

Presuming that’s indeed what happened (temporary blockage of some passage), how long before it happens again? *gulp*

Very mysterious at this time…
Seriously that is cool....prove me wrong, I am good with it....it was a challenge....

The oil port in the back is a direct tributary from the main oil feed that comes up from the oil pump.....99.9% of people take their pressre reading from there....don't overthink it.....I have never seen one blocked.


Jebby

Last edited by Jebbysan; Feb 28, 2024 at 05:52 AM.
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Old Feb 27, 2024 | 10:51 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by drwet
I must respectfully disagree. There are standard and high volume pumps, yes. There are also high pressure pumps. Pressure is a function of the bypass spring. It has nothing to do with whether the pump is standard or high volume. Melling also sells a whole range of springs to allow you to select the pressure you want.
Pressure is most cetrainly not a function of the bypass spring.....
If you bolt a high pressure pump in place of a std....nothing changes....in fact if the engine never sees the 80psi blowoff.....the high pressure feature never happens.....the pumps are identical save for the max blowoff spring....
High Pressure to Melling means higher potential pressure.....till it blows off.....
The spring is potential max pressure....a 60psi spring will blow at 60psi on so on.....
BUT....a HV pump will increase pressure all over the place as it is forcing a larger amount of oil that can the engine can't pass....therefore pressure goes up.....
Telling someone high oil pressure is a good thing is rediculous.....
You do NOT want 60-80psi of pressure at or off idle......this means it moves the same amount od oil at idle as it does at 6000rpm and it rides against the blowoff which is bad....it causes heat and aeration.....
You know why Blueprint puts HV pumps on their ****? Marketing....because the fairy tale crowd loves oil pressure....if you bought a brand new crate engine with 25psi at idle the fairy tale crowd would send it back or start a post on Fakebook....
I have tested oil pumps on real engines on a real dyno and I stand 100% by what I say....I didn't create this ****....I am just here to tell you what I know....and what I know is the Pro's do not use HV pumps on street assemblies....some not even on race assemblies....
Consider this....I have built engines with both Titan and Moroso billet block pumps and they were all adjusted to run 20-30psi at idle....with a nice sweep to 70 or so all the way past 7000rpm on Dart Big M BBC builds.....this is where they are happiest and have the best oil control.....best compromise of flow and drainback.....and Dart/World blocks have priority main oiling so bearing clearance plays an even bigger roll....
Y'all build and do what you want.....but a lot of people are and will always be confused by the Chevy oiling system and volume vs. pressure....and how pumps are designated.

Jebby

Last edited by Jebbysan; Feb 28, 2024 at 05:53 AM.
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Old Apr 8, 2024 | 11:01 PM
  #117  
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Default Not out of the woods

I know it's been several weeks but I'm back. The car has been running fine but, oddly, the oil pressure has actually come down into more normal readings (like 35PSI). But, now I feel like I'm watching a sped-up version of what I originally said happened over what I felt was actually many, many months: that is, I fear that my oil pressure is going to work its way back to near zero. I mean, why would my pressure have been at the elevated levels I was describing after this most recent oil+filter change (which was about 55PSI at idle) and now it's only about 35PSI at idle (or less). I feel like I'm heading back towards the condition where the pressure just drops and drops ... and drops over time.

I also realize I never posted my results from the Blackstone Labs oil analysis. They definitely found metals (iron, copper, lead, tin) at the microscopic level that were "higher than normal" (most being 2-3 times what is perceived as normal for something the age of my engine). I had mentioned to them (in the card I filled out) that I saw some 'glitter' myself here at home (I posted some pictures of it in one of my earlier posts) but they saw no evidence of that in what I had sent them. That's good: that means that what I found (which was all trapped in the oil filter) may have been the worst of it. On another plus note, they found no fuel, water, or coolant present in the oil and that the oil and viscosity were fine, physically. Their signoff though was "Inspect/Proceed carefully".

In short, I feel like I can no longer ignore the fact that I have likely got some excessive bearing wear/damage. And it's probably time to face the music before something catastrophic happens.

I'm about to pull the trigger on ordering some Plastigage, a new set of connecting rod bearings and new main bearings, a new oil pan gasket, etc. I do not intend to pull the engine but, instead, to drop the pan and replace all the bearings from below. I know from reading and videos that it's more awkward this way but it's the route I'm going to take. Removing a bearing cap and the lower half of its bearing seems very straight forward and obvious. The upper half of the bearing, though, is captive between the crank and the block. With that in mind, I've seen a few videos of people who have used some probably-not-approved approaches to removing the upper half of a main bearing by distorting a cotter pin (or grinding down the head of a screw) and then inserting that 'tool' into the oil hole in the crank; they then rotated the crankshaft and relied on the exposed part of that 'tool' to catch the upper half of the main bearing and slide it around and out -- without gouging the mating part of the block. Anyone here have experience with that approach?

Sliding the top half of a new main bearing cap into place seems much simpler. But, surprisingly, none of the videos I saw mentioned using assembly lube on the new bearings. I have to believe that a thin layer of assembly lube on every bearing I install (main or connecting rod) would be a very good idea -- and would also help me to slide the upper half of a main bearing into position above the crank.

Before I order anything, I think I want to pull the pan first and then pull a few connecting rod caps and one or two main bearing caps and see first hand what's going on with the bearings. Assuming that things are worn, I'm HOPING that the standard (stock) sized rod bearings and main bearings will be correct --- again, I didn't do the engine build and there are no existing records of the parts that were used.
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Old Apr 9, 2024 | 08:00 AM
  #118  
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You will probably get many different responses on what to put on the bearings but all I ever put on them is the motor oil I'm running in the engine. if you want to put assembly lube on them make sure it is the heavy thick oily kind. I would not put moly paste on them.
Pat
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Old Apr 9, 2024 | 08:24 AM
  #119  
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Interesting. I had also considered that so maybe I'll just go that route. Thanks.
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Old Apr 9, 2024 | 09:39 AM
  #120  
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I would strongly advise against attempting to replace bearings with the engine in the chassis. I tried it once when I was young and foolish with disappointing results. You don't know for sure that you have a problem yet, and the oil pressure you have is fine. I would run the engine as is until it shows signs of a problem. If your OCD won't let you do that, I suggest you pull the engine and rebuild it properly. But I really don't think that is necessary. Run it. Sample the oil at the next change and reassess. It's a small block Chevy. These things are bulletproof. Give it a chance.
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