Numbers Matching Transmission?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 60
Likes: 16
From: Kansas
Numbers Matching Transmission?
So I am on eBay looking at parts for sale and I come across a guy selling Muncie transmissions. He lists that he will send you a numbers matching transmission for a fee. Now I am new to collector cars and Corvettes. I am trying to learn as much as I can. Isn’t this really dishonest? Essentially the seller is offering to make your car numbers matching. In the description he talks about, “What NCRS judges only care about” and so on. Can someone please chime in and let me know if this is acceptable in the classic car industry?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 7,839
From: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
2025 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
I can only offer my humble opinion.
restamping parts to make them appear to be original is indeed dishonest.
Often it's detectable. Some are really good at it.
This is why engine stamps are often judged by the factory broch marks on the deck. And why people are cautioned not to clean the area with sand paper and the like. So as to preserve the factory broch marks on the block.
Same is true with transmissions. If the original numbers have been ground away. It's difficult to return the surface to a true factory appearance. Number stamps with the correct font can be sourced. But often spacing and straightness of the numbers is different.
Bottom line. I personally believe this is dishonest.
restamping parts to make them appear to be original is indeed dishonest.
Often it's detectable. Some are really good at it.
This is why engine stamps are often judged by the factory broch marks on the deck. And why people are cautioned not to clean the area with sand paper and the like. So as to preserve the factory broch marks on the block.
Same is true with transmissions. If the original numbers have been ground away. It's difficult to return the surface to a true factory appearance. Number stamps with the correct font can be sourced. But often spacing and straightness of the numbers is different.
Bottom line. I personally believe this is dishonest.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 60
Likes: 16
From: Kansas
It have to agree. This individual is getting $1250 to make your Muncie numbers matching. How many cars could be out there that claim to be the real deal and they aren’t. I am sure there are lots of folks out there just like me that don’t know enough about broach marks or number spacing and think they have a rare find. I really thought about posting this persons info but decided against it. Anyone can go to EBay and find this easily. I just don’t want someone to get taken on a car deal down the road.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2021
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2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Last edited by Driving69; Apr 2, 2026 at 08:42 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,236
Likes: 898
From: Myrtle Beach SC
This individual is getting $1250 to make your Muncie numbers matching. How many cars could be out there that claim to be the real deal and they aren’t. I am sure there are lots of folks out there just like me that don’t know enough about broach marks or number spacing and think they have a rare find. I really thought about posting this persons info but decided against it. Anyone can go to EBay and find this easily. I just don’t want someone to get taken on a car deal down the road.
Lots to discuss here the reality but I'll just list the bullets points. I'm a 1973-82 Chassis judge with NCRS and have lookea at many survivor candidates over the years.
- In 1978, the primary 4-speeds were Borg Warners. The Muncie/Saginaw was a cast iron box, a throw back to the Muncie of the 60s, and only offered in 78-79 with L48 motors.
- Unless a 78 is on a lift, it takes some doing to verify the VIN derivative and 4-speed assembly code. Most judges in the late-model years are probably not familiar with the task.
- Is $1250 worth the 20% deduction on the four-speed score line to warrant the investment? The line item scores 4 points for originality and 2 for condition. missing stamps is at least a 20% deduct...get the point!
- An owner would be better off with a nicely operating four-speed that matches what came with the Corvette and not worring about numbers matching at this point...My view!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,103
Likes: 802
From: Massapequa Park NY
It wouldn’t matter if you used the guys name….he is advertising on eBay!! It would be helping him. It’s no secret that this has been going on since the 80’s. There are plenty of members of this very forum that have used services like that. Everyone knows who does the restamping of parts and who prints the phony paperwork. Fake parts and paperwork are the plague of the hobby.
That is precisely why before making a big purchase it’s not a bad idea to come on here and ask for opinions. There are some very knowledgeable members on here who will give you an honest assessment and who know what they are looking at. Then when you start looking at what original markings look like, over time you can eliminate a good portion of the cars yourself. It just takes time to learn but anyone can do it if you have the patience to do the homework. However, some forgeries are very well done. You have to do the best you can trying to figure out what’s real.
That is precisely why before making a big purchase it’s not a bad idea to come on here and ask for opinions. There are some very knowledgeable members on here who will give you an honest assessment and who know what they are looking at. Then when you start looking at what original markings look like, over time you can eliminate a good portion of the cars yourself. It just takes time to learn but anyone can do it if you have the patience to do the homework. However, some forgeries are very well done. You have to do the best you can trying to figure out what’s real.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 877
Likes: 702
From: Oregon
For a while there was a person on eBay selling VIN tags with your choice of numbers. There was, and maybe is still around, a different company selling trim tags with your choice of options. I have seen a few of those plates on Chevelles and they look awesome. Could also get the correct looking rivets to mount the tags.
Ask lots of questions here if in doubt. There are some really sharp guys here that are happy to help.
Ask lots of questions here if in doubt. There are some really sharp guys here that are happy to help.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,279
Likes: 4,372
From: Westminster Maryland
Hello,
Remember that originally the engine pad and the transmission case were stamped at the same time using the same 'gang' holder.
Thus any idiosyncrasies seen in the stamp such as 'font' where '0's and 'O's were often used interchangeably should be seen in both stamps.
Regards.....
Remember that originally the engine pad and the transmission case were stamped at the same time using the same 'gang' holder.
Thus any idiosyncrasies seen in the stamp such as 'font' where '0's and 'O's were often used interchangeably should be seen in both stamps.
Regards.....
Last edited by Alan 71; Apr 3, 2026 at 04:40 PM.
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 103
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From: Fort Worth, Tx.
Personally I would never buy a car based on numbers matching. To me that's like saying you can't drive it. I'm driving any car I buy. I can proudly say almost every car I've owned was worth less than what I payed for it when sold. Enjoyment comes at a high price. Most bang for your buck. Cars are the only area of my life where I've never felt like someone's trick.
Edit: While above is true delivery and omissions may be lacking. Just returned from trip in vette to winstar and half way through fajitas and a margarita the girlfriend made that's blurring my vision. Retirement is good.
Edit: While above is true delivery and omissions may be lacking. Just returned from trip in vette to winstar and half way through fajitas and a margarita the girlfriend made that's blurring my vision. Retirement is good.
Last edited by oilngas; Apr 7, 2026 at 02:09 PM.