Dep, I would love to know why virtually every thread you become involved in turns into something negative and controversial. Maybe you don't agree with Norval or what he has done but at least he has DONE SOMETHING. There are truly those that know and do, and those that talk and stir the pot. He has always been willing to share his knowledge as well. I am so tired of finding threads that interest me and then have to wade through two pages of bull**** that you create with your attitude. Why can't you just keep it positive and respectful. It is because of people like you that alot of the old members and really knowledgeable people throw their arms up and leave because of being attacked by the likes of you. You say you are only being sarcastic and we should all toughen up and take all the barbs, but I have to tell you it has gotten really old and tired for me. Norval, thanks for all of your contributions to this forum and don't let this guy with way to much time on his hands get to you.

 

69ttop502: A little clarification if you don't mind...

I didn't "become involved in" this thread....I STARTED IT. The person that "became involved in" was your buddy, and all he did was shoot negative shots at the whole thread and try to inflate his sagging ego. Actually, it's people like me that lobbied heavily for the tech section that helped BRING BACK a bunch of the old members. They got tired of seeing tech posts buried under fuzzy dice and custom wheel threads.

I'm glad the thread intetrested you, but I don't see any positive contributions FROM you. Just some obvious Norval-worshipping.
If you want to kiss Norvals behind, please start a hero-worship thread and do it there. The people posting here are interested in an exchange of mainly drag racing modifications/ideas/stories/pictures. You'll note I'm not ragging on anyone for veering off topic. I LOVE seeing this stuff discussed.

Dep

 

Thanks, didn't realise we were talking bracket racing (but I was hoping to rattle Dep's cage.... ).
The car that 1st put me onto C3's was Don Garlits, I blame him for my obsession!
Yes.
Best steak I've had in a long time was a New York Steak in a blues bar at Pier 39 in SF. :fat&bloatedsmiley

CMYC4GO, now THAT'S the sort of C3 I really want. For the street Am I warped?

big_G (we share names!), I've just read a book that probably got it's facts from that article. As I said, I can't remember the figures, but the difference was WAY more than swapping heads (to the usual street type choices) give in extra power. So I'm thinking that trying to smooth out the airflow (particularly underneath, but without creating lift) could be a better thing to do for those who use their C3's for highway use? What hit me when I read it was that it was a comparisson with the '82: everything I've read states that the '80 - '82 had better aerodynamics than the earlier models

WHAT THE C3 REALLY NEEDS is the recognition that it was designed as a competitor to the European sports cars of the time, but was made to a price so that your average Joe Public could afford to buy one. It wasn't the fastest, it didn't have the best handling, but to make it faster or better handling would have ramped up the price, taking it out of the price range of the market that it was aimed at. All in all, I reckon GM did a pretty good job of meeting the design criteria. Whether that criteria was correct or not could be debated for years to come, but it can't have been all bad because what came out of it was an icon.
I think what Dep really needs is something called an Ariel Atom: http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/frames.htm
Drop a v8 (of whatever capacity!) in there & have some fun

 

UKPaul: I have to slightly disagree with the Vette being designed to beat European competition. I don't think it was EVER in the cards for the C3 to ever beat anything that Ferrari had during that time frame.
That competition came from Ford in the form of the AC Coba and GT-40.
Newer Vettes, C5 and up, yes, they are Ferrari beaters. Or at least, competitors. We haven't seen what the new GT40 from Ford will do. It MAY re-establish them as world champs if they can get the power the FE 427 had. Note that Pontiac is also heavily involved in sports car racing. If you want to set me up in an English car, send me an old AC body with the Cobra 427 engine

Dep

 

Hi Dep,
Ferrari weren't the only sports car in Europe (nor were the other expensive Italian exotics). There were the cheap MGs, Triumphs & Healeys from here, Astons, Porsche, Fiats, Jags, Mercs, etc. ie cars that were affordable, to some extent, to Joe public. The Vette aimed at this market as a lot of them were being sold in the US. If the Vette was trying to compete with Ferrari then it failed big time (the running costs are far too low for a start ). The C2 did a pretty good job of competing head to head with cars from here & recently came out top in a comparisson with an E-type. I keep seeing the it get attacked for not having brilliant handling, but I never notice the same people criticise the much vaunted & favoured 911 of the time (they just swoon & praise it). Show that car a damp road & it'd swap ends on the 1st corner if the driver wasn't careful (I've been in one, they're deadly in the wet). So I think that Vettes (particularly the C2) did pretty well when compared to the competition such as E-types, MGs, 911's, Fiat Spyders, etc. Can't comment on Astons as I've never been in one. Into the 70's (& the C3, still on the same basic chassis, suspension & brakes) & what happened here? We got the Triumph TR7 for our sins (& the rare TR8 which seemed pretty good for the price). What else? Erm, Triumph Stags? MGBs? Spitfires? I must be missing something? Were the 70's just a continuation of the 60's but without the TR6? Were they that bad? 911's got faster, but wet weather handling was still bad, the exotics got more expensive, but generally it was dark days throughout for sports cars. No wonder we all had bikes! It was a case of get your fun on a bike or have some rotted out rust-bucket of a 20 year old sports car with 20 previous Bubba owners & butchered Lucas electrics. Due to the exchange rate Vettes were just as unreachable as Dinos or AC Cobras. I can still vividly remember some "experts" stating on TV that the days of the sports car were long gone, the roads were too busy, fuel was expensive, everybody wanted 4 seats due to kids & that the manufacturers were looking at family cars instead (and by 2000 we'd all be using jet-packs to commute!). At the time I remember thinking that it was total BS as I certainly wanted a sports car (a certain plastic one!) & the vast majority of my friends also did, but we were all young & skint & could barely afford our m/cycles. I often wonder what would have happened if the motor industry had ignored those marketing "experts" & did some market research of their own on the potential future customers (us) & developed a sports car. We would have asked for a 2 seater car with the handling of an Italian bike, the torque & midrange grunt of a brit twin & the top end power of a *** 4. And not a Lucas componant in sight. But the sports car was deemed to have run it's course and only a few specialist manufacturers were left producing small quantities eg Morgan. Hence the Vette ended up being seen as the US answer to Ferrari when it wasn't meant to be. It was the answer to all the cars that had gone or shortly would. The Japs later cleaned up with a cheap sports car when they entered the market because there was nothing here to compete. All that was available were the expensive Porsches (a 928S, a nice car, in 1987 cost the same as my house did!) & the even more expensive Italian stuff. The XJS? A car to replace the E-type? BS! It's a good thing that GM didn't take the same attitude & listen to those "experts" when sales of Vettes started falling.
AC cars are still made very close to where I live & I know somebody who is well into them. He himself says that they handled fine with the stock small engine but he reckons that they'd be a handful with a big V8. My boss owns a Cobra replica (fitted with a SBC - what an insult!) & a mate has built a beautiful replica. Assuming that the replicas are pretty close to the real thing in terms of handling, then the Vette has beaten them on that front. My boss doesn't drive his as he says that it's brilliant fun in a straight line but the 1st corner that you come to may be the last you'll ever see. So he doesn't drive it. And he won't give it to me Do the replicas handle about the same as the real thing?
GT-40? Nice, but far more expensive than a Vette. But wasn't that built to take on Ferrari head on in the 1st place? I was hoping to see what the new Ford GT would do, but the journalist who got one sent it back because the alarm kept going wrong & his wife got annoyed about it. So he sent the car back. What a wimp Just rip the alarm system out!
A Cobra pulled up outside here last week with a 427 badge on it. If I was able to ship it out to you, I wouldn't! I'd have it myself
Here's something I saw last week that looked interesting:

A TVR fitted with a Z06 lump

 

UKPaul: I can't speak much about the C2 racing, although I do remember seeing pictures of it on the track with the cars you mentioned. The replica Cobras can't hold a candle to the original ones...in performance as well as price. They are made more for comfort and looks than true performance.
Even now, on nostalgia sports car tracks, the old AC Cobra is kicking butt. The Cobra was built to take on the Vette on sports car tracks. It did so well they decided to expand to Sebring and Le Mans. But the roadster body wasn't aerodynamic enough. And the smallblock Ford didn't have enough oomph for the long straights. So after an unsuccessful AC Coupe, enter the GT40 and a big block Ford...exit Ferrari

Since I know very little about sports car racing, can I ask, aren't there specific classes the cars race in? I mean does a 4 banger mini Cooper race against a C2 Vette? Somehow, that doesn't sound right

Dep

 

Replica Cobras do quite well on the track. It's all in how you build them. You can put in a nice Ford big block that would trounce anything that Carroll built. There is a whole racing series built around Factory Five Cobras.

 

A word of wisdom to those who participate on that Forum:
occasionally Arlene Johnson (Warren's wife ), Billy Glidden (Bob's son ), as-well-as Don Schumacher, the Oberhoefer brothers (Kalitta crew-chiefs ) and others add insight, but bring your brain-bucket.....
they play REAL hard-ball over there!

 

I'd like to see a matchup between any of the replicas and a REAL King Cobra with the 427 medium riser.
Of course, that would NEVER happen, because the value of the King Cobra would buy you a VERY nice palace

Are they installing 429 engines in the Cobra clones? I know Shelby has re-introduced the 427 FE engine as an all aluminum item as I've seen ONE in a Cobra so far.

Dep

 

DEP: I was in the military in euorpe for many a year and yes they do have all kinds a classes for the road racing. You'll see all those minis come screaming by sounding like a bunch of sewing machines . But its fun to go to. In Germany you can go to some of the bigger race tracks on "open days" and take your car out there to have some fun.
SGT Kirk

 

Getting back to the main topic for the fun of it....anyone got any idea what the two rods on the upper part of this guy's axles are for?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...0&forum_id=119

Dep

 

That would be neat. The streetbeast cobra kit could more than likely take a new LS7.

 

Hey Jake!!! Good to see ya.

Dep

 

Nice to see your still shaking it up a bit

 

Ahhh...tain't nothin'. We had some feriners trying to steer us wrong, but we're back on track.

Dep

 

It is interesting to say the least. They look like some kind of modified 4 link setup to control the pinion angle from climbing upward on accelerration. You can't really see the front of the lower mount from this angle to tell if it has some kind of connector on it also, but it doesn't look like it has one

It would seem to me that the lower mount would cause the spring to load and bind and cause wheel hop with the top mount being rigid under very hard sudden acceleration... if the force of a launch can't twist the pinion angle up from the top it will try to twist it from the bottom also causing the spring to take the load, i.e dragstrip and sticky tires.

The lower mount does look to be adjustable for ride height. I would think this setup would work very well if the lower mount was incorperated with some kind of floater-traction bar setup.

Cmon Quick, let's see some detailed pics of this setup from different angles.

 

there's no rod attached to the lower mount apart from a modified spring shackle that bolts through it, it looks like someone used a rear end set up for a 4 link and went to leafs instead using the lower mount of the 4 link there used by the shackle and the upper one is used to control pinion angle, then they used ordinary leafs. I would dump the leafs, install the lower rods of the 4 link and get some coil overs.

 

I have glanced through some of this thread, but not all,....but to answer Dep's question there, it seem to me it should be easy as hell to do a solid axel rear, long as you keep the tires outside the frame rails...limiting the width, no way to get 16 inch mickeys in there stock.....

what I would do is leave the t-arms essentially in place, but stripped of everything of course....insert the new diff axel tube throug the t-arm by cutting it vertically, then welding up the whole mess as one unit then fitting a panhard rod for lateral location and two coill overs....job done far as I can see...maybe a frame support in place of the present rear crossmember the diff tied to....
assuming some rears are around with the correct axel length, new t-arms can we jigg welded easily, shock mounts fitted and supplied with all hardware...to weld to existing frame...maybe if done with some sort of maybe 2 1/2 inch bolts per side, it can be a drill/bolt in operation for the shock mounts...save the welding for the kit supplier...what I"m thinking should be a near bolt in ....maybe what?? 8 holes to drill??

GENE

 

Gene: Sounds pretty good. Tires are not a worry as 9-10 inch would be maximum width. What about driveshaft lining up with transmission? Would any crossmember have to be cut for that? Rear ends can be cut to fit.

Dep

 

yes, if you want to gain any suspension clearance, especially on jounce then you need to cut out the pinion mount area and lower it significantly, the stock differential sits up high and the pinion moves very close to the frame there, with a live axle you'll need a lot more clearance there.